The End Of The Line - Players

[Mr Heliums]

1 hour ago, Maltese falcon said:

English Clubs have more money and are signing up Scottish youngsters.  Che Adams is not a great striker but is good enough for Eng Lower Prem or champsionship money.

if Shankland was considered good enough he probably would have been attracting similar moneu

Don't get this logic that playing in the English Championship automatically makes you a better choice for Scotland – it didn't for Oli McBurnie or Craig Mackail-Smith or Scott Dobie. Nor do I follow that if Rangers were to sign Shankland, he'd be more deserving of a call up. Which I think is what you're saying.

I don't think Shankland is great – and he may never replicate his form next season – but as you say he's a good finisher, which I think would have been useful from set pieces, and he was on a scoring streak, which is what I'd want if I was picking a striker who was likely to feed on scraps. Too late now, though.

 

[Kadouken_]

Shankland isn’t good enough for international level. No matter how many goals he scores in the SPFL will change that. 
 

Griffiths was a far better striker than Shankland yet wasn’t good enough at international level either. 
 

You’ll just need to see the move Adams gets this summer compared to Shankland(if he even gets one) to see what people in the game think of them. Adams is average but he’s a better player than Shankland. 

[Maltese falcon]

22 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

Don't get this logic that playing in the English Championship automatically makes you a better choice for Scotland – it didn't for Oli McBurnie or Craig Mackail-Smith or Scott Dobie. Nor do I follow that if Rangers were to sign Shankland, he'd be more deserving of a call up. Which I think is what you're saying.

I don't think Shankland is great – and he may never replicate his form next season – but as you say he's a good finisher, which I think would have been useful from set pieces, and he was on a scoring streak, which is what I'd want if I was picking a striker who was likely to feed on scraps. Too late now, though.

 

Was definitely not trying to say if a player plays for Rangers or Celtic he should be picked for National team.

I was attempting to make a point about money attracting the better players, apart from a few a variations of the mean is just economics.

Obviously there are loads of exceptions that you point out (particularly some who have come through the ranks mid.  ranking/ dross English clubs.

The truth is though if Shankland was better than Adams there would have offers from English or other European clubs after beerschot, or before Euros after a successful season 

[Binos]

On 24/06/2024 at 10:23, gerrymcc1978 said:

i don't know much about some of the youngsters coming through bar Ben Doak but is there any other attacking players coming through that may be decent?

Ben Doak has made 5 first team appearances in his career 

[eez-eh]

It’s true that there’s more to a striker than just scoring, but I think there’s a lot of football snobbery these days towards “traditional” strikers by fans desperate to make themselves look clever. Folk who’ll w**k themselves silly over someone running around like a headless chicken and “creating space” despite actually doing f**k all while sneering at someone who might stick the ball in the net on a semi-regular basis.

I agree Adams is a better footballer and I agreed with him starting the games at the time but he should have been subbed off much sooner. He was doing sod all and hasn’t contributed anything meaningful for a while. There’s every chance Shankland would have been just as shite in general play but there’s a better chance that he gets on the end of a half-chance. Like Finland - he was pish all game then popped up with a goal.

Neither option was ideal but until someone else comes along, or Dykes comes back from injury and returns to form, it’s the way it is.

[Maltese falcon]

15 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

It’s true that there’s more to a striker than just scoring, but I think there’s a lot of football snobbery these days towards “traditional” strikers by fans desperate to make themselves look clever. Folk who’ll w**k themselves silly over someone running around like a headless chicken and “creating space” despite actually doing f**k all while sneering at someone who might stick the ball in the net on a semi-regular basis.

I agree Adams is a better footballer and I agreed with him starting the games at the time but he should have been subbed off much sooner. He was doing sod all and hasn’t contributed anything meaningful for a while. There’s every chance Shankland would have been just as shite in general play but there’s a better chance that he gets on the end of a half-chance. Like Finland - he was pish all game then popped up with a goal.

Neither option was ideal but until someone else comes along, or Dykes comes back from injury and returns to form, it’s the way it is.

Would agree with some of this.  Especially the bit about the sub coming much sooner. Neither option is great . and I would liked some different choices. 

Don't think it is right to believe that Clarke is just overly cautious/loyal or blind to the fact that Shankland is better than Adams (overall he is not)

 

 

[No_Problemo]

34 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

It’s true that there’s more to a striker than just scoring, but I think there’s a lot of football snobbery these days towards “traditional” strikers by fans desperate to make themselves look clever. Folk who’ll w**k themselves silly over someone running around like a headless chicken and “creating space” despite actually doing f**k all while sneering at someone who might stick the ball in the net on a semi-regular basis.

I agree Adams is a better footballer and I agreed with him starting the games at the time but he should have been subbed off much sooner. He was doing sod all and hasn’t contributed anything meaningful for a while. There’s every chance Shankland would have been just as shite in general play but there’s a better chance that he gets on the end of a half-chance. Like Finland - he was pish all game then popped up with a goal.

Neither option was ideal but until someone else comes along, or Dykes comes back from injury and returns to form, it’s the way it is.

I think you do have to feel a bit sorry for Adams too, I would be fascinated to find out how often we got the ball to his feet over the three games. 

I actually think he would have been a good foil for Shankland when we started to make subs v Hungary, but obviously Steve couldn’t have had two complimentary styles up front when we needed a goal. 

[Gordon EF]

Let's be honest, neither Adams or Shankland is good enough to play up front on their own at this level. Adams may be the kind of player that a Southampton or Wolves would pay more money for than Dykes, but Dykes is more effective than either of them for us.

Until we get a properly good striker (which none of ours are) it's big haddy Dykes running about smashing folk.

Edited June 25 by Gordon EF

[No_Problemo]

13 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Let's be honest, neither Adams or Shankland is good enough to play up front on their own at this level. Adams may be the kind of player that a Southampton or Wolves would pay more money for than Dykes, but Dykes is more effective than either of them for us.

Until we get a properly good striker (which none of ours are) it's big haddy Dykes running about smashing folk.

I think there’s also the other option of having some vague idea of how to attack without blootering it in the vague direction of the strikers head. I don’t think you really know if Adams can play up front himself until you try that - but he’s certainly done it in the Premiership before. 

 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, No_Problemo said:

I think there’s also the other option of having some vague idea of how to attack without blootering it in the vague direction of the strikers head. I don’t think you really know if Adams can play up front himself until you try that - but he’s certainly done it in the Premiership before. 

 

He he's played as a solo forward multiple times for Scotland. I think he's done very little in a Scotland shirt.

[PrestersKTID]

14 hours ago, Binos said:

Ben Doak has made 5 first team appearances in his career 

For one of the best teams in the world tbf. And he would've had 10-15+ imo had he not been injured. He's a talent that we should be getting in the squad early like we did with Gilmour..

Liverpool have a good record in recent years in giving youngsters game time, europa league and cups. They have have Jones, Elliott, Bradley in particular regularly in squads.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Does anyone have a YouTube complication of Doak?

Until I see a montage of 2 or 3 second snippets of him performing well in friendlies I can't get excited.