Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Tartan Tories over Labour. That's big sad. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Tartan Tories over Labour. That's big sad. The current Labour Party are further to the right than the SNP are atm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: The current Labour Party are further to the right than the SNP are atm. That's an intriguing position. I'd say the dogwhistle Nationalism they engage in and the covid authoritarianism is more of a social issue rather than Labour echoing some vote winning rhetoric in the red wall areas. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: The current Labour Party are further to the right than the SNP are atm. Most of them are further to the right than the One Nation Tory crowd Boris executed to get Brexit done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: That's an intriguing position. I'd say the dogwhistle Nationalism they engage in and the covid authoritarianism is more of a social issue rather than Labour echoing some vote winning rhetoric in the red wall areas. The Labour Party also do dogwhistles and authoritarianism. They are undoubtedly moving to the right of the SNP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: The Labour Party also do dogwhistles and authoritarianism. They are undoubtedly moving to the right of the SNP. I'd disagree on the level of which they do it. I find the SNP to be quite odious and callous towards people that disagree with them aside from a select few in the Labour Party I don't believe it's on the same level at all. I don't believe Labour get much profit from division whereas it's all the SNP have right now. The Labour Party has improved significantly under the new leadership when it comes to fighting silly little culture war type fights imo. Would you rather have the Labour Party in charge of the UK or the Conservative party? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Would you rather have the Labour Party in charge of the UK or the Conservative party? Neither This is a big part of the problem with the UK also, Scotland (and NI) can reject both parties at the ballot box and still end up with one of them. They have no real incentive to change, as long as they can win England they can win the UK Changing the political set up of the UK to make things more even across the nations isn’t a vote winner in England, it’s probably the opposite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Neither This is a big part of the problem with the UK also, Scotland (and NI) can reject both parties at the ballot box and still end up with one of them. They have no real incentive to change, as long as they can win England they can win the UK Changing the political set up of the UK to make things more even across the nations isn’t a vote winner in England, it’s probably the opposite I understand this frustration. The same happens to people in England and Wales. I don't think Labour needs to change though. I don't think Scottish values are so far away from what they stand for that it's a major issue for most people. I'm surprised you wouldn't prefer Labour over the Conservatives though. That would be a big positive for everyone in the UK imo. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I'd disagree on the level of which they do it. I find the SNP to be quite odious and callous towards people that disagree with them aside from a select few in the Labour Party I don't believe it's on the same level at all. I don't believe Labour get much profit from division whereas it's all the SNP have right now. The Labour Party has improved significantly under the new leadership when it comes to fighting silly little culture war type fights imo. Factional battles have increased not decreased since Starmer came to power. It was only last week they were threatening to throw out MP's and members who signed a Stop The War petition. They continue to purge left wing members and have adopted a confrontational approach to trade unions. 35 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Would you rather have the Labour Party in charge of the UK or the Conservative party? I'd prefer a Labour government, but in reality, the difference would be negligible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: Factional battles have increased not decreased since Starmer came to power. It was only last week they were threatening to throw out MP's and members who signed a Stop The War petition. They continue to purge left wing members and have adopted a confrontational approach to trade unions. I'd prefer a Labour government, but in reality, the difference would be negligible. I'd disagree again on the factional battles. Labour has successfully lanced the crazy corbyn lot and all the infighting is a complete minor irrelevance rather than front page news that makes the party toxic. The Stop the War position was 100% the right move and is exactly the type of thing they need to do if they want to win an election. Again I would rank your perceived injustices as being less of an issue than the authoritarian and Nationalism we get with the SNP. This place is a fine example of the upset and tears and snotters produced if you actually disagree with them. The UK needs a strong Labour party imo. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Would you rather have the Labour Party in charge of the UK or the Conservative party? This is what it boils down to at election time. You will wake up the morning after the election with 5 more years of this current Tory government, or a Labour one. The thing is, Tories will take any kind of government they can. Ultra-right, moderately-right, a bit centrist, they'll take it all because as long as they are in power the country moves rightwards. Many Labour supporters and ex-Labour supporters are like goldilocks, waiting for the right kind of Labour party to come along and support, regardless of the consequences of 5 more years of Tory rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: I'd prefer a Labour government, but in reality, the difference would be negligible. On many issues you are right. Foreign policy, Brexit, etc. there isn't a difference between them. On social issues though I'd back Labour. They would have, if in power, done something to help the poorest face the cost of living crisis. What we've had from the Tories is laughable. Just think of all we've lost since 2010 - Sure Start, school building programmes, low levels of child poverty, a fairly well funded NHS, and so on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I'd disagree again on the factional battles. Labour has successfully lanced the crazy corbyn lot and all the infighting is a complete minor irrelevance rather than front page news that makes the party toxic. This has come at the cost of losing a chunk of its electoral coalition, funding and activists. The funding will be replaced, but by people who will certainly be wanting something in return. Something that will most likely not be in the interests of working people. It's no longer front page news because the right wing media have been appeased. For now. 57 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: The Stop the War position was 100% the right move and is exactly the type of thing they need to do if they want to win an election. The good type of authoritarianism then. 1 hour ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: The UK needs a strong Labour party imo. Only if it is offering something different, otherwise we're left with a de facto one party state with 2 slightly different flavours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: This has come at the cost of losing a chunk of its electoral coalition, funding and activists. The funding will be replaced, but by people who will certainly be wanting something in return. Something that will most likely not be in the interests of working people. It's no longer front page news because the right wing media have been appeased. For now. The good type of authoritarianism then. Only if it is offering something different, otherwise we're left with a de facto one party state with 2 slightly different flavours. Not familiar with the inner workings of political parties so I can concede on some level the first part of your post. I believe shifting to the centre and getting some centre right voters to be essential. I feel like your view might be a bit more pessimistic than mine in that respect. I don't see a centre Labour party as being a bad thing. Disagree regarding your authoritarianism point, that stuff is internal party politics whereas the SNP in general prefer to do it with the general populace imo. I'd say you could easily describe the current SNP as another similar flavour similar to Tories and Labour though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I don't think Scottish values are so far away from what they stand for that it's a major issue for most people. Was it last week Labour announced they’re standing a former head of the OO as a candidate for public office? Some values eh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I believe shifting to the centre and getting some centre right voters to be essential. Absolutely, but if you're doing it in a way that is alienating your support on the left, you're not going to gain much. 25 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Disagree regarding your authoritarianism point, that stuff is internal party politics whereas the SNP in general prefer to do it with the general populace imo. Well, if you consider Starmer to be a return to pre Corbyn Labour, the last Labour governments gave us the surveillance state, they created 3000 new offences and oversaw a big increase in both sentences and the prison population. 37 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I'd say you could easily describe the current SNP as another similar flavour similar to Tories and Labour though. Absolutely. Just different flags. Although, I'd probably still put the SNP to the left of them on certain, but not all issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Noubissie Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Tartan Tories over Labour. That's big sad. 30 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I believe shifting to the centre and getting some centre right voters to be essential. You seem to have a very specific window for where Toryism is acceptable. I personally have some assumptions about where the current Labour leadership are politically based on the battles they're choosing and tabloid headlines they're chasing. But in terms of real issues, I have no idea what their position is on anything. When it comes to elections, if they're willing to cooperate with other parties that they should have plenty in common with, it'll be an encouraging sign and I I'll definitely be hoping they win overall. If, as I suspect, everyone left of Jeremy Hunt is expected to do their social duty and get on board while he drinks pints of bitter in front of flegs and talks about executing terror suspects without trial or whatever, there isn't so much to care about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albus Bulbasaur Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 42 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Was it last week Labour announced they’re standing a former head of the OO as a candidate for public office? Some values eh Not something I'm familiar with. Do you think being a member of the OO should bar someone from being involved in politics on any level? I'm sure we could drag up unsavoury types from each political party and it wouldn't be a fair reflection on values. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: Do you think being a member of the OO should bar someone from being involved in politics on any level? Im going to assume you’re taking the piss now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Clown Job said: Im going to assume you’re on the piss now FTFY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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