Detournement Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Aye like the SNP are pretty shit and Scottish indy is full of neoliberal brains but it’s not like Corbyn is in power anymore normal service has resumed and we’re back to a limp dick Labour Party triangulating into permanent Jiminy Cricket opposition Kieth is getting roughly the correct amount of mockery and abuse. The SNP need their fair share. Did you see the New Left Review article on Sturgeon I linked to? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 @Detournement still not realising that the SNP is his best bet to an independent Scotland; thus allowing his pursuit of socialist utopia. Sometimes you gotta play smart and play long cause the other option is Torys for eternity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 @Detournement still not realising that the SNP is his best bet to an independent Scotland; thus allowing his pursuit of socialist utopia. Sometimes you gotta play smart and play long cause the other option is Torys for eternity Perhaps he does, and rather than persue an Independent socialist utopia, is quite happy, like what's left of Slab supporters, to continue with a Tory Govt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 HB is a Tory in denial. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Nobody's getting a socialist utopia on these isles regardless of independence. Adjust your expectations. it's all a continued downward trajectory, baby! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 The point of independence is that we will at least be able to hit the breaks a bit before we slam head first into the wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 The point of independence is that we will at least be able to hit the breaks a bit before we slam head first into the wall.Which is still a very important thing to do, yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 13 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: @Detournement still not realising that the SNP is his best bet to an independent Scotland; thus allowing his pursuit of socialist utopia. Sometimes you gotta play smart and play long cause the other option is Torys for eternity I don't know why everyone on here is so set on "Tories for eternity" perhaps I'm more optimistic but I can easily see Labour getting elected within the next decade if they play their cards right. Unfortunately for them it's a lot harder considering 90% of their Scottish support/seats have went off to support the SNP and chase their socialist Utopian pipe dream. If you're not actively supporting Labour then you can't snipe at the sidelines saying "tories 4 lyf" when you're helping that along the way. The way I see it is if you're a full blown socialist then go for the Indy vote, it won't work out as nicely as you'd like but you'll at least be able to call yourself progressive and socialist even if you end up in a shite state, nothing like the beloved Scandinavian utopias, poorer and with less life chances you'll at least be politically consistent and you can sleep on your integrity at night as a pillow. However if you're not that fussed about left/right and you don't have a burning desire to fully replace capitalism then you should grow up, support Labour, trojan horse your way into power, actually make some positive social change, like Blair, avoid doing any wars and remember to join Canzuk and we can all merrily get along in constant stability whilst enjoying holidays to Canada. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: but I can easily see Labour getting elected within the next decade if they play their cards right There's a major problem with this and that's Labour playing their cards right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, NotThePars said: There's a major problem with this and that's Labour playing their cards right. Yeah I'm definitely adopting an optimistic approach. I think something people on this forum find hard to fathom is the fact that people quite like Bojo, even the ones that don't like him do the old "harmless buffoon" approach and minimise the political arguments. After he goes I don't see anyone in the Tories that can get the same sort of goodwill he receives, especially post "getting Brexit done" and post pandemic I can't see the typical red wall type floating voters sticking with a Gove type of leader. Edited May 24, 2021 by Stormzy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: I don't know why everyone on here is so set on "Tories for eternity" perhaps I'm more optimistic but I can easily see Labour getting elected within the next decade if they play their cards right. Unfortunately for them it's a lot harder considering 90% of their Scottish support/seats have went off to support the SNP and chase their socialist Utopian pipe dream. If you're not actively supporting Labour then you can't snipe at the sidelines saying "tories 4 lyf" when you're helping that along the way. The way I see it is if you're a full blown socialist then go for the Indy vote, it won't work out as nicely as you'd like but you'll at least be able to call yourself progressive and socialist even if you end up in a shite state, nothing like the beloved Scandinavian utopias, poorer and with less life chances you'll at least be politically consistent and you can sleep on your integrity at night as a pillow. However if you're not that fussed about left/right and you don't have a burning desire to fully replace capitalism then you should grow up, support Labour, trojan horse your way into power, actually make some positive social change, like Blair, avoid doing any wars and remember to join Canzuk and we can all merrily get along in constant stability whilst enjoying holidays to Canada. Didn't realize John Rentoul posts on here. Big laughs at that interpretation of Blair (especially right next to "avoid doing any wars" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 16 hours ago, NotThePars said: Aye like the SNP are pretty shit and Scottish indy is full of neoliberal brains but it’s not like Corbyn is in power anymore normal service has resumed and we’re back to a limp dick Labour Party triangulating into permanent Jiminy Cricket opposition ..or, indeed, that he ever was. Starmer and the rest of the quislings saw to that. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 54 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Yeah I'm definitely adopting an optimistic approach. I think something people on this forum find hard to fathom is the fact that people quite like Bojo, even the ones that don't like him do the old "harmless buffoon" approach and minimise the political arguments. After he goes I don't see anyone in the Tories that can get the same sort of goodwill he receives, especially post "getting Brexit done" and post pandemic I can't see the typical red wall type floating voters sticking with a Gove type of leader. The Tories only added an additional 300,000 votes in 2019 going by a very quick Google. It's not so much about that very solid bloc of voters falling behind the Tories although it is disturbing but also that people just appear to be deserting Labour long-term and the party having no idea or willingness to win them back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: I don't know why everyone on here is so set on "Tories for eternity" perhaps I'm more optimistic but I can easily see Labour getting elected within the next decade if they play their cards right. Unfortunately for them it's a lot harder considering 90% of their Scottish support/seats have went off to support the SNP and chase their socialist Utopian pipe dream. If you're not actively supporting Labour then you can't snipe at the sidelines saying "tories 4 lyf" when you're helping that along the way. The way I see it is if you're a full blown socialist then go for the Indy vote, it won't work out as nicely as you'd like but you'll at least be able to call yourself progressive and socialist even if you end up in a shite state, nothing like the beloved Scandinavian utopias, poorer and with less life chances you'll at least be politically consistent and you can sleep on your integrity at night as a pillow. However if you're not that fussed about left/right and you don't have a burning desire to fully replace capitalism then you should grow up, support Labour, trojan horse your way into power, actually make some positive social change, like Blair, avoid doing any wars and remember to join Canzuk and we can all merrily get along in constant stability whilst enjoying holidays to Canada. "Get the same education as we all did for free, but pay for it. And if you can't afford an education, you could always join the Army. Not like I'll send you off to meddle in a war that bears no threat to Queen or Country, is it? And even if I did, and you come back missing bits, you'll be well taken care of." Thatcher at least acted according to the ethics of her tribe. Blair betrayed the workers of this country in order to gain, and then abuse, power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Labour are no longer a vehicle for meaningful change. It's that simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: There's a major problem with this and that's Labour playing their cards right. Labour don't even have any cards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: I don't know why everyone on here is so set on "Tories for eternity" perhaps I'm more optimistic but I can easily see Labour getting elected within the next decade if they play their cards right. Unfortunately for them it's a lot harder considering 90% of their Scottish support/seats have went off to support the SNP and chase their socialist Utopian pipe dream. If you're not actively supporting Labour then you can't snipe at the sidelines saying "tories 4 lyf" when you're helping that along the way. The way I see it is if you're a full blown socialist then go for the Indy vote, it won't work out as nicely as you'd like but you'll at least be able to call yourself progressive and socialist even if you end up in a shite state, nothing like the beloved Scandinavian utopias, poorer and with less life chances you'll at least be politically consistent and you can sleep on your integrity at night as a pillow. However if you're not that fussed about left/right and you don't have a burning desire to fully replace capitalism then you should grow up, support Labour, trojan horse your way into power, actually make some positive social change, like Blair, avoid doing any wars and remember to join Canzuk and we can all merrily get along in constant stability whilst enjoying holidays to Canada. Interesting viewpoint. My own view that if Labour seriously wants the voters in Scotland to go "back" to them, a pretty good start would be convincing the English electorate to do that. If Labour can't win back its traditional heartlands in England first, they'll find it hard to convince voters in Scotland that they are within touching distance of a Westminster majority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Didn't realize John Rentoul posts on here. Big laughs at that interpretation of Blair (especially right next to "avoid doing any wars" I'd say the introduction of the minimum wage and the marriage equality stuff is pretty positive social change that wouldn't have happened under the Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 15 minutes ago, Stormzy said: I'd say the introduction of the minimum wage and the marriage equality stuff is pretty positive social change that wouldn't have happened under the Tories. Except that same-sex marriage became legal in 2013. Gonna credit Nick Clegg with that one, are we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Except that same-sex marriage became legal in 2013. Gonna credit Nick Clegg with that one, are we? I think you know I meant the civil partnership stuff that was introduced during his tenure. A positive move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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