Handsome_Devil

I broadly agree with you but it needs to be acknowledged that the investment in these people is immediate, the (potential) return is not. And you can imagine the reaction if we miss out on a striker to St Johnstone, a centre back to Livingston in the window and get relegated in May while saying we invested six figures in office staff to secure our long-term future... The other problem, or quirk with this, is it can be hard to put a value on things which aren't quantifiable - brand etc - at the best of times. To take money out of the first team to invest in the general things, knowing half the fans will hate it anyway (think of eventual attitude to the Burrows/Russell community drive) requires not just money but conviction and planning we're simply not going to conjure up overnight. As said, I do agree it's needed but it needs a coordinated approach with a long run-in period when folk aren't going tits due to results...the trouble is, if you keep putting it off because there's a disaster on the pitch you'll never do it and eventually we won't avoid the trapdoor. It's why - without wanting to be too fatalistic - my expectations for our short-term future are so negative. We relied on burrows for so much for so long that having no succession plan was criminal and the problems we've created, while plain to see, seen to be beyond fixing any time soon.

That approach is admirable but it obviously only works if you have properly staffed departments. And when you don't, you eventually produce howlers like that video title. Fwiw on Weir, he's been highly rated at the club for years but it was acknowledged on both sides a full-time permanent position wasn't really possible as, paraphrased 'he had to work for a living'. Maybe one day circumstances will change.

I don't think anyone expects another Burrows which leaves us with two options, both of which cost money and have their separate pros and cons. 1) find a superstar CEO and pay them accordingly, including a premium for then not giving them the staff budget they'd be accustomed to in such a role. 2) reduce the top role to a more modest general manager position but hire mid-senior people to lead the key departments in support. I've been banging the drum for a while that this expense is unavoidable and investment needs to be made. I do understand the temptation to chance it for a year or two given our financial circumstances but usually if you have poor governance and organisation that'll eventually catch up with you.

Yes. The language is, to put it mildly, amateur. To play devil's advocate, I can just about understand why we've delayed. Ideal candidate wasn't available, tight budget due to sackings and last January, if Weir is there as interim, is it really worth taking another 100k-plus out the squad budget now or can we muddle through for a bit? And, as ever, results cloud perception of governance - our lack of CEO was a quirk when we were third after Tynecastle, now it's a farce. So I have an element of sympathy for sure. But it continually amazes me those involved, amateurs or not, don't grasp the need to keep the fans onside with proper transparency and updates. Even if you have to share negative news, it needs to be done.

Society update: CEO position A few of you have been in touch – or have taken to social media – to ask questions of the Society around the CEO position, and to seek reassurance about the direction of travel. We've noted your comments and concerns. As the majority shareholder, the Society has received regular updates over the past few months from Acting CEO, Derek Weir, and the Chairman, Jim McMahon. Here's an update of what has been happening... Despite interviewing a shortlist of potential candidates earlier in the year the club was unable to appoint a suitable CEO earlier in the year. Former vice chair of the club Derek Weir then agreed to step into the role on an interim basis. At that time there were a number of outstanding issues which needed attention, including: Agreeing the continued use of Braidhurst High School for the Academy and Dalziel Park for first team training. Working with the manager and head of recruitment regarding contract issues. This included, amongst others, extending Lennon Miller’s contract and getting the player budget to a realistic and manageable level. This required Derek to stay in the role – supported by heads of department - longer than first envisaged. During the last six months he has committed significant time to the role with positive progress made in a number of areas. It is currently the intention to re-start the process of hiring a permanent CEO in the New Year.

Thing is, you'd say Paisley, Rangers, Pittodrie are often standard losses anyway - that takes us to five points from 16 games (!) going into Livingston if so. Does a win there and likely loss at ER (eight points from 18) justify giving him the window? To me much more likely - virtually certain at this point - is we lose our nerve/finally act decisively but then why the hell not do it in time to get a new guy in for the window? I already said on our thread that if - big if obviously - we're convinced SK will turn it round we should be coming out and confirming he's got the whole window and asking fans, even if they disagree, to get back on the bus.

I would assume Clarkson as youth chief but surely we will look beyond our own backyard this time. Hammell came in with about 48 hours notice to win 1-0 at St Mirren, Kettlewell started 2-1 at home and Alexander iirc started 1-1 at St Mirren with a late penalty cancelling Cole's opener.

I actually think we'll be broadly competitive here but St Mirren are more than competent enough to benefit from our usual howlers...surely this'll be the final nail for SK.

Usual caveats apply to having no idea about his personal motivations but you can't imagine he'd be remotely interested in us at this stage in his career and our sub-optimal off-field conditions.

Similar to 2002/3!

I'm not in the know by any means but I suspect the Society definitely and to a lesser extent the club board largely reflects the feeling here - everyone can see the problems, no one has a viable idea how to fix it. We've been talking about our glaring governance problems since Burrows announced his departure and afaik there's been f**k all useful suggestions.

If there's any pretence of joined up thinking still going on at FP, in theory we should be sacking him this week or giving him until March. At a push we could still do next Sunday but then it's tight getting someone in before Livingston, which should be considered a must. But if you give him St Mirren and we draw, he's essentially got till the Livingston game as we're not going to sack him for losing to Rangers or Aberdeen. Ordinarily then losing to Livingston is a bullet but doing that hours before the transfer window is mental. So while I'd bin him him now, if we don't we need to commit to the decision. Which means the board explain the reasoning, find some money down the back of the sofa, give him a chance to fix things in the window and get February to put it together and ask the fans for 100% backing till then. Everyone agrees we shouldn't be sacking managers all the time unless there's no way out. If we go the other way now, even you personally disagree, we need everyone behind it - a repeat of May 22 or Jan/Feb 23 is absolutely to be avoided.

Also deserving of huge credit is the pass from Blaney - zipped with pace right onto the foot of Bait, taking out the defender, and creating the chance to create the magic, if you what I mean. I find out attack totally bizarre this season - absolutely toothless for huge spells and we then frequently produce either brilliance or luck.

Interesting comments re the apathy. Personally I'm definitely getting old, it doesn't mean less than it used to during the 90 minutes but I've definitely implemented a one pint rule in the sense I no longer let it ruin my day/weekend/life like it used to. Not only do I have too much shit to deal with but ultimately if we get relegated what'll change? I'll still support the team, enjoy time with mates when back home and we'll return sooner or later. There's also a clash between the long and short term perspective. A relatively solid top-flight run of 40 years including a cup, finals and Europe eventually ending is still objectively excellent. Nothing lasts forever. On the other hand the shrug that it's being greeted with (not saying we'll go down this year but we're clearly circling the drain) makes you wonder just where we'll find the brilliant, determined people to join the club/society to improve matters.

I'd have ditched both before and would still bin SK this week but I suspect another point in this fashion will persuade the board to give him another hit at St Mirren...curious if he rolls the dice dropping Kelly, he definitely should but suspect he still won't.

A shame we wasted three winnable games when we could have used the window post-hearts but I can understand why they were given as a last chance. But surely now action taken on Monday.

Jesus Christ, that right? It does make what's to come approach the hilarious part of being shite.

That's fantastic if the case. Equally amusing is the thought we're shunning a player taking up a crucial part of our precious budget because he exaggerated his size by a couple of inches. Who'd ever do that...

When you see him ignored to such an extent it makes me suspect there's more to it than just being shite in training - or rather, there being a non-sporting reason he's perhaps shite in training. It's one thing a move not working out, it not working out to the extent it has with him when he has his pedigree raises an eyebrow.

Definitely nothing against the pair of them, it's just going to be funny after everyone (myself included) has been demanding Gent for weeks. I think a little more can be expected of him given his game time. Davor, given he wasn't even given a jog for ages until Tuesday, certainly gets a little more leeway for me.

It just occurred to me it'll be a right laugh on this place when Gent starts tomorrow and is utter horseshit.

Time (Saturday) will tell but a 3-0 capitulation to a relegation rival is some going. Hammell was also backed through his long disastrous run because we were competitive but losing until a midweek game against St Johnstone, where tools were suddenly and visibly downed. There was clearly no coming back because the players had decided there was no coming back, although we took another tonking and lost to Raith before we binned him. I strongly suspect Tuesday was the players beginning to say 'change it' and I also suspect action will be taken if they say it again in Saturday.

A total guess obviously but I reckon he did what a lot of managers do and is suffering from overestimating his ability after a good spell. He tightened us up because Carey and Butcher were excellent, and he had everyone playing in their position doing the simple things. The high point was his switch to 3-6-1 in the comeback win over Killie. But although we beat Hearts doing that, he kept at it way too long when it was clearly rumbled. Then rather return to 3-5-2, we've often played 5-2-3 which, with our level of players, is simply asking for trouble. And fair enough, perhaps Davor in midfield was just a bad signing who can't push ahead of others but his total refusal to start the lwb he signed at lwb, instead playing a right-footer there and persisting with the mediocre SOD, is mind-boggling. Gent definitely boosts us going forward and he's certainly not going to cause the defence to get much worse than it already is... The fact he absolutely tied himself in knots to the extent we end up starting Blair Spittal at lwb suggests there's no recovery. Which is a real shame because I - and I think most others - would have tolerated a grim 10th placed season to calm down from all the recent managerial upheaval. But if the manager has lost the plot and the players chucked it - as suggested by Tuesday - you don't have much choice really.

You don't even need open play, a couple of corners will do the job just as well.

Other than a bit of venting online, no one seriously objects to us signing shit - you think we don't know the budget situation?! The objections signing-wise are mainly the principle of wasting money on two guys who are chronically injured. A point made worse by Moult, who we rightly turned down, finally being seemingly fit. Beyond that, everyone gave him time when losing until it became clear he wasn't returning to the approach which brought him success. I honestly reckon that if he'd not changed to a ridiculous formation and kept playing the best we have, shit as they might be, in their proper positions then even with our comical run he wouldn't be facing the end.