Jim McLean's Ghost

Technically he is correct, the best kind of correct. There IS no provision for Rangers to enter the First Division rather than the Third until they make one.

Again a lot of that just isn't true. The McLeish document has been implemented on many levels and other proposals related to it have been tabled and failed. Things that happened Mark Wotte has been brought in as Performance Director Vincent Lunny has been appointed as Compliance Officer The rules and regulations of the SFA were changed last year with the agreement of all clubs A new board structure was developed with a professional board and non-professional board to meet the needs of broader football Things that failed The suggested 10 team SPL was put to a vote by the members, they rejected it. There was a proposal at the same time for a merger of the SFL/SPL to bring about a single league body Things not tried There has been little to no movement on the proposed pyramid system, regional leagues £500M of govt spending facilities was a pipe dream Reserve teams in lower leagues The current SPL/SFL proposal brings about one league body and a pyramid so that leaves a 10 team top flight and £500M missing. While the announced plan has been rushed the consultation has been done on most of the proposals and they have been set as targets to achieve by independent review that has mostly been achieved. The good parts of the McLeish report have been distilled and the bad parts left out. If anything the whole post is a bit hypocritical, framed around self interest of the SFL. I don't think that is what the McLeish report set out to achieve.

See this is what happens when you copy things without checking facts. UEFA and FIFA had nothing to do with Fiorentina's eventual outcome. My link I wouldn't hold out hope of UEFA and FIFA commenting on the matter. They are there to regulate FAs not to regulate leagues.

We know the SFA have had their hands all over this so Petrie is a stick on.

I can only partially agree that clubs screwed their finances due to the SDM model. It was a model used by other clubs too, you only need to look at the trail of debts in the English leagues to see that Rangers weren't an exception. I don't balme Rangers for John Boyle splurging £9M. There was a culture of football debt spurred on by ever increasing revenues, this couldn't last forever. The only solid numbers we will have is if we see companies either reduce contracts or there is a significant difference in realised value. There is also a quantifiable amount that Rangers bring due to their away support, no one knows how much support newco will get. So figures are vague right now but I think there is a consensus that the SPL is more valuable commercially with a fake Rangers compared to no Rangers. If Rangers finishing outside promotion then they won't be promoted. Clubs will continue on and face financial dangers of an unattractive league. If they get relegated same thing, if they go bust the SFL still have £1M for TV rights and all the other good things they are getting from the deal and policing costs while higher for OF away supports are easily covered by the increased attendance.

Those point are irrelevant, we are in a period of flux. History has shown that although the OF individually have up and down periods eventually the two of them go back to the top because they have much larger fan base. It is the way of the world apparently/unfortunately. As far as clubs going bust go this is the largest amount of debt clubs have been carrying when one of the OF are hitting a down period and the finances of the top clubs have never been more reliant on the cumulative value of the top league.

What happened to 14/14/14? And you better watch that Granny Danger doesn't come along and tell you off for speaking on behalf of the whole SFL.

This is an outrageous mis-truth. Celtic were the dominant side. United had one title and one second place, anywhere else but Scotland that would be considered a blip. Aberdeen did better but still weren't anywhere close to dominant. Celtic and Rangers combined to win 16 out of 20 titles in that period, way less than today but now with player power in full flow money matters even more than it did back then. Not to diminsh Aberdeen and United's European achievements or the National team but Scotlands current standing is way below where it was and while the Old Firm might have played their part, economics and politics have been a much greater factor when considering the Scottish decline. If you want a detailed financial representation of the worth of Rangers or newco go look for the details of the unsigned TV extension.

Come on now, I didn't start a thread claiming I would sue my club if they didn't refund my season ticket. I think we know who the real attention seeker is

Darlington are No Marks though, I'm sure if a big club had been in trouble the result might have been different.

The concept of merit and sporting integrity is being upheld consistent with how it has been handled in various other situations across the footballing world. Maybe you should put aside the idea that football is a delicate flower that has never been touched by corruption, horse trading or outright cheating. No one is genuinely interested in reconstruction or changing the game if it doesn't have personal benefit, I am perhaps not as naive as you. No pyramid, no second SPL promotion place, no expanded league and a pittance of the generated money flowing downhill won't be changed by those with self interest at heart and that goes for the SFL and SPL. These things will happen by horse trading, it may not be the cleanest way to for it to happen by things rarely get achieved without people getting their hands dirty.

Fair point. The Italian authorities aren't ones to be admired. Why don't we look at a more reputable association, The FA. How did they treat a newco? Here is a complaint brought by Rotherham against Leeds(2007) My link. Basically the FA rolled over, let Leeds continue in their current league with a 15 point penalty. So the SPL/SFA/SFL proposal to the clubs is harsher than that.

Why don't you point out where I'm wrong.

What? Look the only way the long term stability of Scottish football doesn't end with Rangers and Celtic on top is if one of those clubs ceases to exist. This will not happen. Airdrie died but didn't stay dead, Rangers have an even greater financial incentive to be alive and nothing you, me or even the authorities can do that will change that. I want to know why relegation to SFL1 with a whole load of concessions to the SFL isn't enough for some people to accept. For years of match-fixing Juventus received relegation to Serie B and a 9 point deduction. I know it isn't exactly the same situation as a Newco but it is a punishment for a much more serious offence. And if people want to talk about rewriting rules to suit Rangers, rules were rewritten to the detriment of Rangers when they entered administration. Transfer of shares were moved from a board power to a general Meeting power, points deductions were increased and specific penalties were brought in for Newcos. This is an extra-ordinary circumstance that calls for commensurate action. And at the same time positive changes can be made for the whole of the game.

How many teams did he want in the SPL today?

since it is a different company I don't see what they can do. There are rules about CVAs and giving creditors preferential treatment but since they rejected that then it isn't any of their business.

hmm that is a compelling argument. I'm sure the SPL will acquiesce to your demands with such a great offer. Here is the SPL counter offer, take Rangers in the 1st or there will be no negotiation on anything. Ever.

Technically they are doing more than dealing with Rangers. There are other pieces to the deal too. Teams are viable without Rangers but not with the standard of player the fans are used to. When Dunfermline came up they were strong in the first division but were probably the weakest SPL team ever, apart from Gretna. That is the standard most of the SPL would be reduced to by cutting back more. Players would move to England or other leagues to make more money.

I think all SPL clubs back this idea. It makes sense for them, they can chuck the newco out to appease fans but hope Rangers win the SFL so thing are back to normal after 1 season. You saw Motherwells finances laid bare, we can't afford to run at the levels we are beyond this season and I'm sure the same is true for other clubs. The SPL don't want to reinvent their financial model, this includes Celtic, they want Rangers back, they want a new improved TV deal and if they have to throw some cash and a playoff to do it they will.

I don't agree. We are all in limbo right now, those in power must take decisive action. If this is what they have come up with then they should push it forward, if it fails they should all walk away. If Petrie, Doncaster and Longmuir can't get their plan through they don't deserve to be leaders.

I really don't think it would have. There would be no incentive to it, with Rangers out the game staying in the top division would be crucial to maintain dropping finances for clubs servicing debts. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The SFL aren't sure about a pyramid, this is the SFA agenda as I'm sure the SPL don't really think about division 3. Expansion is tricky 14 needs a worse split than 12, 16 is too few games without a split. No one has put forward a credible plan that solves all the issues. With a single governing body do you think expansion is more or less likely. I personally think it is unlikely in either scenario but more likely with one body. The deal on the table might not cure all of the games woes but you can at least acknowledge it is a step in the right direction.

Yes they can but they won't. Things like a pyramid and trying to organise below SFL3 have been talked about for years with little movement, 1 league body is popular in many quarters but the SPL wold never agree to that without these circumstances. If clubs weren't looking out for themselves a second relegation spot would have been brought in with the expansion to 12 teams. There are a lot of entrenched position that would remain that way. You can look at this either as the leaders as a "parcel of rogues" selling out and undermining the people or you can see it as the "New Deal" where Scottish football has been in a great depression and drastic reforms need to be made to the way the governing bodies interact to make it healthier.

Assuming the BBC report is true... They are going to change the rules with the agreement of the SFL. The SFL get their playoff plus £1m for the trouble and teams in the first get to play Rangers next season which should attract more punters, more hospitality and more commercial revenue. To me it seems a small price to pay to get a forward thinking agenda into Scottish football, even if I don't agree with all the points. Credit to Petrie and Longmuir for getting a good deal for the SFA and the SFL. Once the merger rolls around we should start to see big changes in the game. Too many people have been too focused on the killing Rangers over and over, it will never last. They can get more than 40,000 people to turn up to watch Rangers and if you tell them their new team isn't Rangers most of them won't believe you or won't care. (see Clydebank/Airdrie). If you kick them to division 3 Scottish football gains nothing, if you kick them out completely you still gain nothing apart from some club will be taken over and rebadged. This way things actually happen instead of Scottish football suddenly becoming a lot poorer. Rangers get relegated which is fair. Dundee/Dunfermline situation is unsatisfactory but nothing's perfect and the SPL can still deal with revenue sharing, votes, friendly exceptions and anything else where the OF have been running roughshod over the diddies.

And did he tell them that St Mirren was for sale and he is still accepting offers?

Get your PAC code and fill out a form on the website Three Ofcom and carriers have done a great job in making things simple, the only difficult thing is taking out a new contract on the same network compared to upgrades but I think you can get around that by getting a PAYG sim and doing two transfers.