Jim McLean's Ghost
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Posts posted by Jim McLean's Ghost
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Referee's receiving EBTs, falsified accounts, prosecutions?
Too good to be real.
Anything is possible here. It does seem unlikely to have happened from 2000 onwards with greater media coverage but I'm not going to rule it out as false just yet.
Let's see what lovely accounting trickery they have been up to. Everyone had said EBTSs were in the submitted accounts, has somebody decided to check out that claim.
While I advocate only vacating trophies for EBTs, if falsified accounts and genuine fraud (not just playing fast and loose with the tax code) has occurred I will take great delight in several rangers directors ending up in jail. I hope the prison system has kept up with the DisabIlities Discrimination Act
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alex thomson @alextomoSays: "how on earth was Green ever allowed to buy the assets like that under liquidation - you can't do that. Not surpised Smith left."
alex thomson @alextomoSays "now HMRC have gloves off under liquidation, they'll go after Whyte and Murray and more."
alex thomson @alextomoLawyer connected to fmr Rangers manager tells #c4news "there's a massive fraud in Rangers waiting to come out"
I thought Alex Thomson was a respected journalist who did his research. Green purchased the assets while Rangers PLC were in administration, more over Rangers PLC are still in administration. Liquidation hasn't started yet and the liquidators aren't in charge of the company.
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The player exodus is surely only days away. I'm gonna get an ice cream headache!
I wouldn't count on it. Players are still registered to Rangers FC, Duff and Phelps are still in charge of that, contracts may or may not have been TUPED. Players will move on when this is ironed out.
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I guess the other burning question is when does
My Team:
Rangers
get removed from P&B? (or at least changed to something else)
Come on, you really just want to get it up Caledonian curmudgeons don't you
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Well, it seems to me minor contractual rewritings would deal with all of that. But the fact is (and I nearly wrote fact in capitals there!) Rangers FC as we know them are dead. No more. There's no question of the Newco being a Conuco as it were. It seems to me both the SFA and the SFL have to make this clear, and Rangers fans have to recognise it. Any punishment must recognise this. A points reduction would essentially be saying this is a Conuco. Using logic alone, only a restart in division 3 would make sense. Legal issues aside, Rangers FC surely can't continue to play as a branded Rangers F.
The SPL can't decide what is a continuation club and what isn't only the SFA have that power. The SPL could vote Yes for a newco then the SFA deny the transfer of membership and make newco apply for a new club membership. That would mean Sevco's Rangers officially loses all it's history.
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Have a look at this little lot. Word 'speculation' is used, mind.
Basically, it says Livingston cheated in 2005, when Dundee were relegated, and Campbell Ogilvie was implicated as he advised Livi how to sign Hassan Kachloul. Then the whole thing was swept under the carpet, as it would have uncovered the whole Rangers EBT scam.
I think that proves that improperly registered players need not carry an automatic 3-0 defeat. What punishment the SPL give out for the EBTs will be interesting.
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Any rules should have a proviso that allows normal procedure to be overridden when the situation dictates. This farce needs brought to a head urgently so two weeks is too long given the length of time the clubs have known about the situation.
There are rules to do that, they just haven't been invoked. The chairmen want this two weeks to see what the fallout is and what consensus can be reached before the meeting. There is still plenty of time to get the SPL house in order.
The SFL might be under time pressure, I am sure it will be their decision on who gets promoted out of Dundee or Dunfermline (or they could choose to promote no one) and which club gets the open spot in SFL 3.
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So legally Rangers don't exist.
Therefore a court action could be raised should they suddenly reappear in the SPL?
You know some people should be barred from posting in this thread.
Of course Rangers F.C. still exist, not in a pleasant state but are alive and still in administration. The company who holds the SFA membership and owns the SPL share don't have any other assets but it doesn't mean they are dead. We are in the process of Sevco trying to extract assets from Rangers PLC and seeking permission of the relevant authorities to move non-transferable assets.
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How would that have worked exactly, with the away end sold out? What you're asking for is for United to sell no more tickets for the rescheduled game as they'd have to assume every Rangers fan at the original match would return, meaning United would lose a not inconsiderable sum of money. You didn't charge Hibs fans again, but you were able to cover costs by offering discounted entry to people who weren't at the original fixture (I believe) with ample room in the stadium to accommodate those fans.
So if the Rangers end was half full then United wouldn't have charged for the re-arranged game. Steven Thomson broke years of tradition when he charge for a re-arranged match that didn't make it past half time, he did so only out of monetary concerns, that makes him a money grabbing c**t.
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If he does not payback any loan then the company is liable for the repayment and why there is an 80 year perpetuity put on them.
But the Rangers EBT system at some point would have been shut and closed down probably before anyone noticed likely well under the radar if the HMRC had not investigated the widespread misuse of the loans on EBT's.
The company is liable to pay money back to itself? They still have gotten the tax benefit of when the loan was given so does that really mean anything other than moving money around on a balance sheet.
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They could write all they want, letters are irrelevant to what you are alluding to.. It is acknowleging the loan or making a payment in the five year period that counts.
Writing a letter of a loan statement is acknowledging the loan. Just writing it in your accounts isn't enough, you have to contact the loanee.
If I lend you fifty quid and say pay it back whenever. If I do nothing then chase you up 6 years later and I have kept wonderful balance sheets and audited accounts of this loan for the duration it wouldn't matter, you could legally juke it. I need to send something to you inside 5 years.
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It's 80 years and notice the bold type in repaying BACK the loan from "the taxguide" website
From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank.
It can be 1000 years, they still have to write to you every 5 years to keep a claim on the loan.
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Here's a wee snippet from "The TAXGUIDE" website on EBT loans.
"From an employee's point of view, loans offered through an Employee Benefit Trust can be a very cheap way of borrowing money. First, it is important to understand how the loan is paid back. This type of loan is judged to have no repayments 'in perpetuity' – in these circumstances, the term of perpetuity is judged to be 80 years. Instead, the money is recovered by the employer through wage deductions. Furthermore, as the employer is already receiving tax relief on the EBT, the loan is unlikely to incur any interest, making it a far more attractive option than a high street bank."
1. Deduction of wages is not automatic and may not occur immediately
2. The stoppage of employment doesn't mean these loans need to be repaid either meaning that another way would need to be found to pay back the money and if no contact about the debt then it would be expunged.
It isn't really relevant here though.
The point was that people were saying the EBT wasn't a loan because it wasn't being repaid and had no known conditions of being repaid. A legal EBT could be administered that way. Adding in contractual obligations for pay is where the scheme went wrong, yes?
It could be noted then that a Director like Campbell Ogilvie might well have a legal EBT. He is no longer an employee of Rangers so how and when should he pay this loan back?
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Did you read my previous post ?
These payments were made OFFSHORE so they are not covered by SCOTS LAW.
This was more a statement about loans in general than about fraudulent EBTs. I believe English law has a similar clause. If the EBTs were paid on shore, which is completely legal and the administrators of that loan did not contact the recipients for years the loan would be forgiven.
Rangers will be found liable for the BTC plus penalties but I don't think the employees who received this money have a case to answer or money to pay.
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Wow, I didn't know that. Where did you read that?
That is the law. If a person/company lend you money and there is no contact for 5 years you are no longer indebted. Contact would be any written statement, payment or request for payment.
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Not really, any profit made was donated to a charity and it wasn't just the Rangers fans who got charged again for the match, non-season ticket holding United fans got charged too. Thompson charged for the replayed game to cover the extra costs for the policing given that it was against Rangers.
His problem, all replayed games has costs incurred.
He went against years of precedent and gentlemen's arrangements based on actual rules written out for Scottish Cup ties.
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Bullshit. Loans with no requirement to be repaid are not loans.
Not true. Loans can be made on any condition the lender wants. There doesn't need to be an agreement or timescale for repayment included.
More to the facts any EBT over 5 years old which the Rangers Trust have not contacted the person about are automatically forgiven under Scots law.
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It's a pattern of behaviour, one apparent well before this thread's genesis, that makes people question your allegiances. You were also one of the most vocal critics of United's decision to charge Rangers fans for the rescheduled fixture at Tannadice. Yet to see you side with Celtic supporters on any issue.
Whoa boy. United are still c***s for doing that. Every game that I've been to has been abandoned at half time has been free entry. We didn't charge Hibs fans when are floodlights caught fire last season. The time honoured tradition is that if a match is abandoned at half time then the rescheduled fixture is free for all those who attended the original game.
Stephen Thomson went for a cash grab plain and simple and he should be condemned for his actions.
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1339785398[/url]' post='6339883']
Mr Green has gone to great lengths to remind us repeatedly that the Newco only applies to Rangers the Company not Rangers the football team, so therefore any Footballing related punishments (from the footballing authorities) must by that reasoning be applied to Rangers the football team. (whichever division they find themselves in)
The SFA are the only relevant football authority. The SPL isn't a football authority it is a trade group. As such the SFA can punish a football club, the SPL can only punish companies that own football clubs. Usually a merely pedantic difference but in this case it is a big one since the football club is being separated from the company.
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1339784270[/url]' post='6339836']
I dont see why conditions are necessary at all. A transfer means the continuation of the football entity.
Again, I disagree. The SPL might be investigating dual contracts, but the players registration is, ultimately, with the SFA. If the oldco is found guilty of dual contracts then the SFA would be well within their rights to punish the newco, presuming of course that the SFA membership is transferred.
This is something that has confused me. Is submitting all contracts to the SFA an SFA rule or an SPL rule or both. If it is an SFA rule Why are the SFA not in charge of the investigation.
If we are wiping out trophies surely the SPL ca only deal with league titles.
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1339775554[/url]' post='6339351']
Why can't they levy a future points deduction? If "Rangers" transfer their share to "The Rangers", then isn't it considered a continuation of the same club in terms of membership?
Aren't points deductions and expulsion available sanctions?
That would be punishing the newco for the actions of the oldco. The SPL could try and make terms of transfer of share that the newco take responsibility for all past actions but that to me is illegal. If newco were punished with a fine or points penalty I think they would win any court case.
The only authority who has the right to punish newco for past actions is the SFA. They don't deal with companies like the SPL, they deal with clubs.
Punishments due to a transfer of share are still on the table so really forward punishments of EBTs is irrelevant since the SPL gave themselves open options for punishment and I'm sure they will be looking at all the circumstances that lead to a share transfer being needed.
If they chuck them out of the SPL then there will be no avenue to punish the newco for EBTs anyway. The vacating of trophies is good enough for me, a permanent black mark against Rangers.
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I think Doncaster is correct to suspend the ruling until they take some legal advice over what is an available sanction for EBTs. This doesn't mean there will be no sanctions if the SPL votes for the share transfer since the SPL just changed the rules so they could impose sanctions on the newco.
The SPL certainly can't levy fines or future points deductions for EBTs now so that means if found guilty the vacating of trophies. I don't think trophies should go to runners up, instead there should be no winner so that when anyone looks at a history book they immediately know something was wrong and I don't particularly agree with re-awarding trophies well after the fact since any joy gotten by the new winners is completely false and overshadowed by the feeling of losing at the time.
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listening to the podcast of sportsound earlier
dont know if it was mentioned but collier bristow still being chased obviously for the £25Mil BUT they said the money for that should they win would be spread amoungst the creditors.
which (to me) from a £55Mil debt is actually BETTER without even having to do the maths than what they were offering in their CVA
(the last line is my own thinking)
That was always included in the CVA.
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1339718446[/url]' post='6337905']
What would be better if the Teams themselves refused point blank to play them at all, as the sporting integrity would be shot to buggery from the start, that is why FIFA is really going to be the final nail in the coffin for this story.
Picture the scene,
Season opener ties,
we have
Aberdeen v Motherwell
St johnstone v raith rovers
Celtic v Dundee utd
Hearts v hibs
st mirren v new co
and FIFA release a statement,
Due to the fact the newco in scotland has been kept in the SPL and sporting integrity has been lost in that country, FIFA have suspended all teams in Scotland from europe for 10 years, scotland for competing in the world cup and our membership void.
Is it really worth that? just to keep the same team, same stadium same people running it in the SPL??
What?
First it would be UEFA who take action. Second that is very unlikely. Third Newcos aren't a new invention, they have been used by many clubs across Europe.
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E-Chat Quick Question Thread
in The E-Chat Technology Forum
Posted
Is the computer intact? If it is and it is just gubbed from a virus or whatever you can put a linux distribution on a USB stick and boot from the USB. This will allow you full access to the hard drive and then you can take off whatever files you need and then do the restore. (Does the hard disk have a recovery partition or will you be installing a clean OS)
Here is a guide how to do it