stanley

Are they giving any reason to justify not moving to the EoS? I can kind of understand why clubs might have stayed junior last year but I'm genuinely struggling to understand now. East juniors south section down to 20 teams with four of them being newly elected amateurs (three clubs from towns already represented in the EoS and one club rejected by the EoS). 2 more already announced as leaving with more very likely to follow. Many west sides likely to exit for the new WoS. What's left for them? What are the long term prospects of staying in a continually weakening east juniors? I would be demanding an answer if I was a fan of a club deciding to stay for another season.

Excellent statement on Facebook IMO. I've always been very impressed by the way they conduct themselves. Time for the rest of the East juniors (south of the Tay at least) to get on board finally.

Looking at something like this then (assuming a large number of juniors join if not then just Conference A and B) 2020-21 Premier - 16 Conference A - 10+ Conference B - 10+ Conference C - 10+ 2021-22 Premier - 16 (including 3 champions of conferences and potentially a 2nd placed team) First - 16 (three teams from Premier + 2nd-5th in each conference and one 6th placed team) Second - either one division of up to 16 or regional divisions of 10+ Any indication of how they will decide on splitting the teams up in the conferences?

Assuming there is a maximum of 16 clubs in each conference, that would mean (depending on promotions/relegations) there would be space for 8 or 9 clubs. Thornton and Kirkcaldy have already applied so another 6 or 7 applications would push it over the 16/16 limit for two conferences and push it to three conferences. Or perhaps they would do three conferences of 10+ clubs. Already have 25/26 clubs with Thornton and Kirkcaldy and seems very likely there will be a few more joining. I wonder if there will be any regional element to it this time. Otherwise it just seems a bit pointless.

I'm not sure conferences are such a deal breaker for the East juniors as people seem to make out. If most of the East juniors move together to the EoS then they'll be in the same tier and same division (either that or split between regional divisions if enough move). They'll be playing the same teams as this season and that helps with the idea of maintaining local games. They don't have much choice by this point. If they decide not to move for 2020-21 because they would be in tier 8 rather than tier 7 conferences then they'll have to apply in 2021-22 for tier 8 anyway. There's no alternative. Get left behind in the juniors and eventually join the EoS further down the line in a worse position or just join for 2020-21.

Thanks for your posts on here jc1. It's been a breath of fresh air to have you come on here and ask for opinions on the options for Fauldhouse and listen to different views. I hope others will follow your lead and open up to the different options. Good luck, I hope things work out how you want for Fauldhouse.

Getting the sense that all (perhaps not Tayport) Fife clubs could easily move to the EoS for next season. No insider info whatsoever but it feels that way from tweets etc.

Proposed new proposal?

People still do that in England with having a league team and a non-league team despite them all being in the same system.

Why is it ironic that clubs behind Auchinleck on and off the pitch want to enter the pyramid and have a chance to improve themselves as clubs and have a chance to progress?

I think a solution will take a bit of time and needs to try to respect the SoS at the same time as progressing the pyramid. Longer term, a Dumfries & Galloway league (I know Bonnyton are in it as well but they are the exception) could not be at level 7. If you look at the EoS as an example, if the south of the Tay juniors all joined then you'd end up with a structure along the lines of: Tier 6-EoS Premier (16 teams) Tier 7-EoS First (16 teams) Tier 8-EoS Second North & South (up to 16 teams each) Many of the former EoS clubs are in the Lowland League but if you look at what was left of the league after the LL formed, a small number would make it to tier 7. As things stand, you'd probably get around 5 or 6 of the EoS clubs (post-LL) in the EoS First if it was to use the format above although that's before you add 22 east juniors into the mix with the chance of being promoted etc. If all the west juniors were to eventually join the WoS then you could have something like this: Tier 6-WoS Premier (16 teams) Tier 7-WoS First (16 teams) Tier 8-WoS Second (16 teams) Tier 9-WoS Third Central & Ayshire/D&G (up to 16 teams each) You could also make it three regional divisions at tier 8 but I think promoting three divisions into one doesn't tend to work well due to lack of promotion places and the west juniors already moved towards a region-wide model recently. The main thing for me would be that you incorporate the South clubs into the structure (only 13 first teams left, similar to what was left of the old EoS) and they gradually find their place in the league. I wouldn't just ditch the league to the bottom but I would allow teams to start higher up if they want to (or go lower down if they prefer that). A league based in such a small regional area would have to be at the bottom of the pyramid longer-term by definition (i.e. national leagues at the top and regional as you go lower down).

You'd be looking at three tier 6 leagues representing the following populations: WoS - more than 2 million EoS - almost 2 million SoS - 150k Not sure there can be any argument about this...

There should be fixed boundaries generally or things quickly become a mess. Clubs shouldn't be able to choose which league they go into as they might choose a weaker league to give them a better chance of promotion. There may be the occasional team that's on the borders of the boundaries but generally teams should know which region they are in. As said above, Dunipace were a bit of an outlier in the west juniors and it was sensible for them to join the EoS.

Yeah and I agree with you on that. There should be boundaries in place so that clubs can't pick and choose between EoS and WoS. I just think you discourage rather than encourage junior clubs to join the seniors with your posting style.

Honestly think you damage things with these types of posts. Jc comes on here and posts genuinely asking for advice and gets a hostile reaction from you. You do it to others as well. Clubs have stayed junior for various reasons and are gradually moving over. They should be accommodated in the seniors like the EoS have done not told "You didn't have the nerve to join so get to the bottom of the queue". FWIW I think they should join the EoS not WoS just don't see the need for replies like your one.

2020-21 could look like this if all the following happen : -Brechin City are relegated and replaced by Kelty Hearts/Bonnyrigg Rose -All Fife teams other than Tayport join the EoS -Bo'ness United gain a licence and are promoted to the Lowland League -Craigroyston continue and Eyemouth United return EoS Premier Hill of Beath Hawthorn Camelon Broxburn Athletic Tranent Dundonald Bluebell Penicuik Athletic Jeanfield Swifts Linlithgow Rose Musselburgh Athletic Crossgates Primrose Sauchie Dunbar United Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale Leith Athletic Tynecastle Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts EoS First Blackburn United Whitehill Welfare Newtongrange Star Dunipace Heriot-Watt University Haddington Athletic Kinnoull St. Andrews United Oakley United Burntisland Shipyard Glenrothes Edinburgh United Preston Athletic Dalkeith Thistle Coldstream Stirling Uni reserves EoS Second Ormiston Peebles Rovers Craigroyston Tweedmouth Rangers Easthouses Lily Hawick Royal Albert Arniston Rangers Eyemouth United Thornton Hibs Kennoway Star Hearts Lochore Welfare Newburgh Rosyth Kirkcaldy & Dysart Lochgelly Albert Alternatively, make it regional and have a division one north & south. I think I'm right in saying that if Brechin are relegated and replaced by a Lowland League club and Bo'ness go up to the Lowland League then four teams will be promoted from the EoS first to the premier without any playoff?

I feel like, if one or two more Fife clubs announce they have applied to the EoS, then the rest will follow as the "local matches" reason will get weaker with each team that leaves.

Kirkcaldy moving to the EoS would leave just 17 of the old South of the Tay junior sides in the SJFA (excluding the four that joined last season after the exodus). 9 in West Lothian (only three have moved so far to the EoS) 7 in Fife (Kirkcaldy will be the 8th Fife team to move to the EoS plus Burntisland/Inverkeithing) 1 in Perthshire (Jeanfield and Kinnoull already moved, the others north of the Tay)

Might not mean anything but Thornton Hibs liked Kirkcaldy's tweet.

8 clubs left from Fife. Other than Kirkcaldy, you've got: Thornton Hibs, Tayport, Kennoway Star Hearts, Lochore Welfare, Newbury, Rosyth and Lochgelly Albert Kelty Hearts in the Lowland League and 8 Fife clubs in the EoS.

Bring in a new WoS and let SoS clubs apply to if if they want then remove the league from the pyramid. It can't be at tier 6 in its present state. Give the clubs that opportunity to join the WoS and remain in the pyramid or let them go back to the SAFA and reform the Dumfries amateur league if they aren't interested in the WoS.

Why split up the licensed and unlicensed teams like that? Either have a non-league cup for all or one for all but the north (if they don't want in) i.e. the South Region Challenge Cup. If the amateurs ever link up then you can have two different main cups like the FA Trophy and FA Vase in England.

EoS/SoS playoff winner (if licensed) is promoted and no LL side is relegated.

If a WoS is set up for next season and West junior clubs start moving across then you have to think it will encourage some of the remaining East juniors clubs to move to the EoS as well.

Thanks for the info. I'm always a bit surprised that Heriot-Watt have never been mentioned. I'd have thought they would have a chance with their facilities but perhaps they are missing out in other areas.