NorthBank
-
Posts
2,465 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by NorthBank
-
-
Amazingly Doncaster has just said on Radio Scotland that Rangers will either stay in the SPL or not play anywhere else in Scotland. The SPL Board (not the clubs) will make the decision! (Assuming liquidation).
Ooops. sorry Desert Nomad - hadnt read your post. Fucking disgrace if they stay in the SPL.
0 -
I dont want any team to go under. I'm aware thats not the most popular stance but i dont want any club to dissappear...pain maybe, but not completely go under.
It may be old-fashioned but I believe in honesty and fair play. For clubs to spend sackfuls of money they do not have to give them an advantage over clubs that do pay their way is cheating and dishonest. In Rangers' case there may well be outright stealing. There is no difference to me between Gretna and Rangers - you cheat then you pay the price.
Administration should not be a get-out clause where you get rid of your deadwood players and staff and start again as if nothing had happened. St Mirren were a yoyo club as they paid their pay honestly. The last time we were in the SPL we got relegated as we didnt buy players we couldnt afford and had to pay for a new stand to fulfil a ridiculous 10,00 seater ruling. The next time we came up we had to install undersoil heating at Love St for 12 months to meet SPL criteria - another waste of honest money. (The heating was never switched on but cost £500,000). I am glad we did what we did and the way we did it.
The hypocrisy that is oozing out of Rangers is nauseating. They talk about redundancies and the poor tea-ladies that will get the boot. At the same time they offer £7,500 to Cousin knowing full well they do not have the money. If they go out of existence then its a self-inflicted wound and not the fault of anyone else. If Rangers are liquidated then maybe a well-run honest club like Spartans would be admitted to Division three.
0 -
I dont want Rangers to completely die,
Any particular good reason?
0 -
Ultimately the fans of the SPL clubs should decide. Football is about fans and fans should have a say in this. If every club had a vote then season ticket holders should inform their club of their wishes. It worked with the 10 team League fiasco as many fans wrote to the SPL Board and to their Clubs stating their opposition to it.
For too long the 'authorities' have dictated to us what is best for us (all seated, tickets compulsory, Sunday morning games etc). Maybe now is a time to fight back. Its about time that cheating clubs face the consequences.
0 -
Rangers owe Hearts 800K, owe Dundee Utd 100K and Dunfermline 80K. That may have an impact on how they vote.
About other clubs 'needing' Rangers. We have played them once at Paisley this season and they had 2K fans. Not bad but not exactly an amount that would cause us to go under if we didnt get them. If Morton were to replace them (no chance I know) they would bring almost as many. I admit the TV money would be a blow but football would continue. The OF carve up most of the TV money anyway.
In Rangers' case they appear to be guilty of deliberately exploring fraudulent and unethical business practise so do not deserve leniency. I would be very pissed off with St Mirren if they voted yes.
0 -
I am sorry to say Rangers will survive. It is morally wrong but legally I am sure ways will be found to pull it off. It really sickens me when clubs cheat the opposition by buying players they cannot afford and the advantages that brings whilst the responsible clubs who do pay their way yoyo up and down. The SPL / SFA must set a more stringent financial system for running a club and anyone breaking it is booted out. However that will be too late for thoses down Ibrox way.
0 -
As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....
..............
If and its a BIG if, you think Mcauslands a player, then prepare for the new messiah.
There are very few Buds who think McAusland is a player. Most if not all were shocked when we resigned him and most are shocked every time he plays. Nothing against the lad but he hasn't shown much to suggest he will turn into an SPL footballer as he lacks many basic skills. He can do a basic defending job in a backs-to-the-wall kind of way, but cannot pass to save himself and gets caught out constantly. He will have to go some to win over any support from the terraces assuming we had terraces.
0 -
I can see both side to the situation here.
Livi feel as though they should be in the first division therefore they are not wanting to play third division football. I assume they have had some legal advise that if they were to play third division football then it would be seen as though the have accepted the decision... which obviously they haven't.
On the other hand, they have broken the rules and have been punished, and as far as I am concerned they should accept the punishment and jsut get on with the games, and trying to rescue their club...
If the SFL use the precedent of Hamilton, Livingston will be goven a 15 point deduction, and be sat bottom of the third division !
What Livi feel is irrelevant. They went into administration. The LMC decided the punishment was demotion to the third division. Livi were informed of this decision. The only grey area is when does the punishment start? The SPL clearly are stating the punishment starts with immediate effect as they issued new fixtures. Livi are chancing their arm in that there is nothing in writing about when it starts. In light of there being nothing in the Rule Book then I would assume that legally, the governing body ie the LMC's decision would stand, because that is the role of the LMC, until all the Member clubs ratified or rejected it. There is no way the clubs would now reject that decision in the current circumstances.
Livingstone have alienated all the other clubs in the League and now have given the LMC the option of throwing them out the league as there is no appeal against failing to fulfill a fixture and the LMC can do what they want as a punishment.
0 -
BBC Scotland radio said that Livi were appealing and not playing tomorrow. They also said that East Sirling have said will turn up as directed to do by the SFL. Sounds like a Scotland game. This implies that people are not in agreement and I presume that someone will be in serious bother over this. There is nothing on the BBC website yet but there is a Scoreboard program on medium wave at 6:40? that may give more info.
0 -
QUOTE (larry the lion @ Aug 5 2009, 22:53)
Some of these posts are unbelievable! 
The way some of you are gloating is quite repulsive and perverse considering the overall state of Scottish football and the likelyhood of this repeating itself in the not too distant future. Your provincial, narrow minded, short visioned tripe spewing from your keyboards reminds me we, as livi fans, now have NOTHING to be ashamed of. NO-ONE to apologise to, no one to ask to be kind and not harsh. GIRUY. Why the harshest penalty possible, because only then did it secure promotion for two other clubs. Cynical? That word doesn't even cover it. One trouser leg up, get licking those frogs boys!
What a scene today in the meeting eh? The Airdrie chairman chairing the meeting that will see his club get promoted, Black, red faced and passionate, rallying the old gaurd. What a conspiracy of wanks! The SFL that is bigger than the rest of us and been around 100 years pish is easy to spout when it suits you. 5 minutes ago they were hell spawn and utterly redundant in your opinions! Plus the members effectively said, NO to the SFL policy of allowing Livi to continue. "oh but mumsy wumsy, now livi will have an unfair advantage in the lower leagues and might just bounce back up!" FFS !! Admit it, you just don't like to see other teams succeed because you are tight, mean and cynical MTF.
Pathetic, what a bunch of miserable misers (mostly). I hope the boot is on the other foot sometime, and oh boy, I don't think we'll have long to wait.....
To those amongst you who have been gracious and supportive of us, I apologise for my tirade.
Everyone else, ask yourselves how you would feel in our position and get a grip.
Livingston -
Will we pay our rent? No.
Will we pay our electricity bill? No.
Will we pay taxes? No.
Will we pay Council Tax? No.
What about wages? No.
Small firms that rely on prompt payments? No.
Health & safety certificates and compliance? No.
What about a manger? No - sack him and his cronies and give them f**k all.
What about all the people that rely on Livingston paying their way so these people in turn can pay their mortgages and feed their families? f**k them as well.
What we will do is convince full-time players to play for nothing while all our competitors pay the above bills. That way we can hopefully march up the league while our rivals have go part-time to pay their debts. Then we can bask in the glory of being a successful team.
Is that what you call right, morally just or fair? You must have a few screws loose if you think the above is acceptable behaviour to everyone else involved in Scottish Football who has had to endure pain to survive while you f**k everyone. Again.
0 -
Don't be surprised to see the Council write off a massive percentage of their debt. In addition, with Livi technically not being in administration, if the club is bought out then is there a likelihood that the SFL will conclude they don't have the power to impose a penalty - as the club would then be under a new regime?
I've felt from the start that Livi would get away with this relatively freely and fully expect them not only to survive, but to avoid relegation. It's just the Ayr fan in me...
But surely the club is in administration (appointed by the Court), until ALL creditors are paid off one way or another. Until that happens Livi are still in administration and all that that implies. Ok The Council may decide to burn taxpayers' money but the Inland Revenue, the small businesses and people like Hegerty will demand their pound of flesh (quite rightly so). So do the current board have enough dosh to pay creditors AND guarantee a £700,000 bond AND be able to take on more staff eg Bolan?
0 -
The original quote I used argued that the punishment should increase to be more than we had the last time. We didn't get a 10 point penalty last time so why should we have more this time ? We aren't in admin yet. I know. I know, I'm starting to sound familiar
Livingston ARE in administration - thats why you have an administrator running things. Until you pay the creditors what they have asked the courts for, you will remain in administration. Liquidation is still a possibility if the administrator cannot come to agreement with the creditors. And on that note I am mystified why Livingston can talk about bringing in a new manager as I understood that Livingston could not take on staff while in administration.
0 -
I posted the following on the other Livi thread about Gary Bolan, but havent really got an answer there. Could someone here help out -
'I'm confused. Have Livi not already got a Manager in Paul Hegarty? I thought Hegarty had been sent home for 'a breach of discipline' and is, as far an employment law is concerned, still in the post? OK Bolan could be appointed an interim manager but surely thats another wage that they cant afford AND they still have Murphy (?) on the payroll. And I thought that if you are in administration you cannot take on staff? Can anyone clarify?'
0 -
I've listened to the press conference and I'm struggling to understand what has really changed, other than the offer to Massone being increased and Livi being allowed to compete in matches for the next few weeks.
If Massone refuses to sell - and there's nothing suggest he will change his mind - Livingston will either be liquidated in a few weeks.... or the offer and deadline will be upped again.
And as for Massone being insane or retarded - surely nothing could be further from the truth. He has got exactly what he wanted from the situation and most people think it's because he's an idiot rather an conniving shitebag!
I've no idea what legal issues involved would be, but surely the best situation would be for Livingston FC Ltd to be liquidated, so Massone gets nothing, and the 2 investors to take over the league place with a new club in the 3rd division. This would of course be dependent on them placing a bond and business plan to ensure the completion of at least one season, and - crucially - the commitment to pay some non-trival (at least 20%) amount to the creditors of Livingston FC Ltd.
And why should two guys with no official capacity in football be allowed to start a new team with automatic entry into the SFL? When Livi dies it dies. There are other clubs who want entry with better experience and credentials and maybe even a touch of honesty and morality.
0 -
Why is anyone having any sympathy for Livingstone? They stole from small business before and from their own staff and are doing it again. They owe vast sums of money. Why should they get another chance when clubs that play within the rules have had to suffer with smaller squads on tighter budgets due to good housekeeping? They are thieves. Let them fold.
0 -
By not paying your debts you are effectively stealing. Clubs that get themselves into that mess should go under like any other business. I am sorry for supporters but you cannot continually cheat all your life and get away with it. Livi did it once. No second chance.
0 -
Sorry to all the Livy fans. Not nice to see a club being run down by a muppet like this.
Obviously to a lot of provicial football fans Livy were always a bit of a franchise club. Came into a bit of cash, bought their way through the leagues and despite a good bit of success, never harnassed the hard core support that other problem clubs had (PT, Falkirk, St Mirren, Morton etc).
Ultimately when these clubs had trouble (self inflcited or not), they had a big enough support to keep things ticking over and crucially find a wealthy fan or consortium who was able to buy the club.
Also, I guess the timing of this couldn't have been worse with 18 months of recession I guess the chances of a wealthy fan having shedloads of cash to throw at a 'hobby' is even lower.
No offence but I wouldnt describe St Mirren as a problem club. We have never been in administration (Motherwell, Dundee, Livingston 1st time round, & Falkirk?) or gone out of business (Gretna) or resurfaced as another team (Airdrie). We had some debt like every club but nothing like the debt of many clubs (Kilmarnock, Hearts etc). We, unlike most of the clubs mentioned above, played within the Rules. We built stands to meet SPL criteria they we didnt need; we laid undersoil heating that was never used. We played by the Rules which often meant having a poorer team as we paid our creditors.
We hit the jackpot when we sold the stadium to Tesco but that was down to some brilliant negotiating by our Board. It has really annoyed me over the years when clubs bought success by playing high wages to players that they couldnt afford in order to gain success while creditors got zilch then used administration as a convenient way of resurfacing (eg Motherwell & Dundee) with no sanctions being made against them. And I was also annoyed when Rules were changed about SPL criteria AFTER we had paid for white elephants. St Mirren are a well run club and the support realised that we couldnt sign big name players as we paid our other bills first. We had to suffer in lower leagues as thats all we could afford.
Clubs that have spent more on wages than they could not afford should in my opinion suffer the consequences like any business. I dont remember many Motherwell, Dundee or Livingston fans complain when they had high earners that the club could not afford so have to take it on the chin when finally the money runs out. Clubs, by law, should have a ratio in place where they can only spend in wages a percentage of their income which would mean that they live within their means and dont cheat their way out of justice by using administration as a tool to do so. I am truely sorry for the Livingston fans but did they stop to think 5 years ago where the money was coming from for their brief success or do anything about it then? Now is too late.
0
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
He said there was no guarantee but the SPL Board would decide (and we all know the outcome of that!). He was strong in that there was no system to allow them to be in the SFL. What about a 1000 point reduction and relegation?