LongTimeLurker

The virus doesn't care about the economic pain of keeping pubs closed and quality of education in the classroom vs online. You can't pick and choose like that if you are serious about prevention and elimination from a public health standpoint. Once those sort of factors are entering into the decision making equation, it's time for politicians to be honest that they have given up on the notion of waiting for a vaccine and are now happy for herd immunity to happen naturally because the numbers from other countries that have taken more of a vodka and sauna approach suggest getting there isn't much worse than a bad flu season.

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. if their own personal circumstances dictate that it is better to steer clear then steer clear, but don't try to stop others from being able to proceed, if their circumstances are different. As long as schools and pubs are being kept open, the governments have basically adopted a Swedish approach and are no longer really trying to effectively contain the virus. There is no justification from a public health standpoint for not allowing lower level football with crowds in the hundreds to proceed in a similar manner to England at Step 3 and below at that point because there are far more likely venues for the spread of infection being actively kept open elsewhere.

They are doing a couple of token things to appear to do something while they are really effectively doing a no lockdown Swedish sort of approach at this point but don't want to tell the punters that after months of having the media telling people that would be the wrong way to go. I would rather that lower level football wasn't part of the collateral damage on going through that whole charade. Can understand and have no problem with the concept that Rangers vs Celtic can't go back to normal right now but a fixture like Lochore Welfare vs Easthouses Lily definitely isn't mission impossible to do in a very low risk sort of way, so it's time to ease up a wee bit on the nanny state mentality.

It's only common sense that Muirkirk vs Lugar doesn't need to be under the same sort of regulations as Rangers vs Celtic.

Is it actually possible to use the word piffle in Scotland without being instantly kicked to death by random passers by? Despite all the hype, the changes made yesterday point to the powers that be seeing the "second wave" as being something that will soon blow over. Schools and pubs would have been closed if they were genuinely expecting anything even remotely like April. Not sensible to start without fans, but best to find a way to wait and see for a few weeks and start calling up your SNP MSP to ask why the English approach on Step 3 and below isn't being applied in Scotland to everything below the SPFL.

Having been in one in Japan during two major earthquakes I can confirm they are designed to sway in a big way. Laughing at the gaijin's reaction to a minor tremor is a favourite Japanese pastime right up there with telling them that natto is a local delicacy they really must try but once you get past 6 on the Richter scale they are nothing like as blase about it once books start flying off shelves and office chairs start rolling very fast across the room and slamming into walls.

National League and above was being treated differently from Step 3 and below. The comparable level to WoS still gets to have spectators from what I understand. Given it's outdoors with limited socially distanced crowds it should be a lot less problematic than pubs and restaurants.

Fans attending games has been stopped in England as well now. Still OK below National League level from what I understand, so not having that at a comparable level in Scotland is a case of deliberately using football to create a point of difference with what Westminster is doing.

You really think experts are telling Nicola that nonleague football with spectators is a no no right now, while others are telling Boris it's OK down south?

You are posting in the thread frequented by people who do care. Jo Swinson is alleged to have lost her seat at Westminater because of a local bowling club issue almost nobody cared about. It doesn't necessarily take much feedback to galvanise politicians into action.

As long as the RUC dog of repression isn't barking at our feet we'll be fine.

If the public ever fully grasps just how inept the UK's political class (devolved parliaments included to an extent but mainly Boris) were in handling COVID at the start of the year the backlash against them could be ferocious. Guess there's a reason why we still need to pretend that the lockdown did something massively pivotal even though the outcome on cases and deaths was much the same as for the Swedish no lockdown scenario and that having a curfew on pubs at 10 pm actually matters in some way at this point.

^^^this needs to be explained politely but forcefully by as many people as possible in phone calls to their SNP MSP with the implication being that how this gets handled could be their Jo Swinson bowling club issue.

Feeling fine but like you less than impressed with the contrast on how pubs and lower level football grounds are treated. Think it's time for some twitter feed spamming basically.

^^^Ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ein Schottland und ein fuhrer, ... So it all boils down to who has the numbers rather than some rational strategy based on science when Nicola is deciding how to be a wee bit different from Boris to try to create another wedge issue over the Union. Cannae upset the alkies, there's way too many of thaem so the pubs stay open, cannae stop folk fae getting their nat king on visiting other households if couples are involved after aw they nae rumpy pumpy jokes, that's no gonnae go doon well so better be careful there, you can still dae it ootside on meeting otherwise so whit ur ye moaning aboot, but the junior thickos can aw get tae France as they all support Rangers anyway and won't be supporting us come the glorious day...

IQ tests I have taken suggest otherwise. Could join Mensa if I wanted to, so not going to lose any sleep over what you have to say on that subject.

True enough but everything inevitably gets dumbed down by the media to a narrative where only one thing matters. The SNP had to do a U-turn on exam results, because the public started telling them what they had announced just wasn't on. If enough people start telling them that what they are doing to the lower levels of football is not acceptable things will get changed PDQ. In the words of John Lydon ...And blind acceptance is a sign, Of stupid fools who stand in line...

Just a case of being seen to do something without really doing anything substantial because they know this second wave is an inevitable consequence of the earlier lockdown and a phase that we were always going to have to pass through on the journey back to normality. Deaths are not much more than 1% of what they were in April so comparing case numbers now to what happened back then would be almost comically misleading if the subject matter were different. But hey anything for an attention grabbing headline. You had to have severe symptoms that could lead to hospitalisation to be tested back then. Now suspected mild and asymptomatic cases are being tested in huge numbers. Apples and oranges in other words.

...and here we go again with trying to link what is happening on the science front over COVID-19 with politics.

Meanwhile in The British Medical Journal: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

Many experts on the subject do not share that assessment. Use google and read up on the subject and educate yourself. Who is correct on this will be clear in the not too distant future, because ever more data is accumulating that will provide the definitive answer.

Why put a word in quotes I never used? The reason I see mass hysteria setting in is that the numbers for today so far for the UK appear to be 4368 new cases and 11 deaths on the worldometers page I normally check to see what is happening in various countries. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ Back in April if you check the data plots at that url there would have been up to around 100 times as many deaths as that corresonding to that sort of number of new cases. Any trend on the latter number should have only a 7 to 10 day lag on the former based on what happened previously, so there is nothing so far with this "second wave" to suggest that there is a major problem that really merits a massive U-turn on the process of re-opening that has been underway in recent months. I predicted this issue was coming on here though. Here's what I had to say on this subject just over a month ago:

Would be best if lots of people call their SNP MSP and say, "ah've aye voted SNP* but see if ah dinnae get tae watch the fitba again soon..." Problem is the people that do call them tend to be complete cranks, so they don't get to hear what the silent majority are wanting on issues like this. * - this part doesn't need to necessarily be true.

Nobody's forced to participate, if they prefer not to take any risks. If pubs and restaurants are open and people can fly overseas on holiday, the idea that having spectators socially distanced outside at WoS football games makes a critical difference either way in the larger scheme of things at this point is entering the realm of mass hysteria.

Google it and beyond that what I wrote was "largely over" not "over". I am well aware that the "second wave" is unfolding right now. We'll know very soon in the space of a few weeks what the story is going to be on that because the data on deaths and ICU admissions will provide the answer on the way forward on this. The point of my post was that people should not listen to the doomsayers that are saying the season has no chance of happening and leagues should just give up on having one.