LongTimeLurker

Got you confused with Stag Nation. As for the rest not worth pursuing. All I am doing is pointing out the reality of what is actually happening where the HL negotiations are concerned. Tayside is not involved, so it is not safe to assume that the HL catchment is the destination for Tayside given Luncarty from north of the line was just accepted by the EoS.

So applying the logic of the last part, now that you have moved the goalposts from your original posture of "junior clubs" sulking rather than the SJFA where LL related negotiations were concerned, why would it not be the SJFA doing the negotiating on behalf of both the north and east regions at this point where HL feeders are concerned? All the indications point to the HL, SFA and SJFA viewing this as a north region only issue with the entire east region falling under the LL in pyramid negotiation terms, while we also have the information from George Fraser earlier this year about the SPFL trying to strongarm the LL into agreeing a Club 42 boundary shift so that Angus clubs would be relegated into the LL rather than the HL. It should be obvious at this point that Tayside's destiny in pyramid terms is still far from clear cut, but probably more likely to be as part of the LL catchment than the HL's given Luncarty managed to get into the EoS OK, but we still get people on here who seem to view the Club 42 boundary as fixed and immutable and applicable to all pyramid matters rather than just the narrow issue of where Club 42 gets relegated to.

...when the LL was only accepting a limited number of clubs through application meaning any top junior club that applied could be left marooned with no traditional local derbies and no path back to their superleague through relegation. The EoS premier clubs (mainly Spartans) saw their chance to shape the LL in their own image and pounced.

Many junior clubs expressed an interest in various surveys. The mechanism through which the LL was set up made it very difficult for them to apply, but Kelty eventually did and the rest is history. The HL may have welcomed the prospect of an Angus SPFL club possibly joining them through relegation at one point, but there is no evidence that they ever seriously expected to be joined by Lochee United or Broughty Athletic even if it was a hypothetical possibility.

There is a North Premiership in the east region that is a "Tayside League" even if they eventually opted for other branding. The champion of that would be a good fit for a three-way HL promotion playoff with the NCL and north region champions if the Club 42 boundary was still viewed as applicable (yes I know on Tayport as the solitary outlier by a few hundred yards). The SJFA did the negotiating with the LL in a PWG context when two junior regions were involved. It is not doing so where the HL is concerned and only the north region ever rates a mention in that context from the HL in media coverage at the moment. Draw your own conclusions. The only place you ever see the idea that Tayside will fall under HL at tier 6 being pushed as some proven fact is by a few posters on P&B as far as I can tell. There is a disconnect between what is actually happening and what often gets posted on here.

The only future tier 6 feeders that the HL are negotiating with are the NCL and north region juniors. There is no indication that the HL currently view Broughty Ferry as part of their catchment and have any plans to cater to it now that junior clubs have crashed the pyramid party, because Tayside never seems to rate a mention when the issue of tier 6 feeders gets discussed by or reported on in HL only circles. Broughty Athletic can always put an application into the EoS like Luncarty did.

The LL will need to agree a second automatic relegation place to speed things along on that or we could easily be looking at a decade for T5 to start to get up to speed.

Nothing wrong with being an amateur club. Just making the point that smaller junior clubs nowadays have very few regular supporters that are likely to ever post on here in much the same way as amateur clubs, so it probably isn't FWF's penchant for spreadsheets that is the reason why nobody is posting about Stoneyburn in this thread.

Keep your identity politics bigotry out of this thread.

Have been to Kenya. Nairobi in rush hour needs to be seen to be believed.

Take Bo'ness and Lithgae out of the equation and there were never that many posts about the east on here in the first place. Most east junior clubs even at superleague level tended to have relatively small core supports given how many SPFL clubs also tend to be close by. Forfar West End vs Forfar Athletic or Sauchie vs Alloa? Most potential supporters that don't travel to watch a larger full-time club elsewhere chose the latter option locally as the fitba's a wee bit better. Beyond that how many posts would you realistically ever expect about glorified amateur clubs like Syngenta, Harthill, Stoneyburn or West Calder? There have always been very few posts about the north as most north stuff gets posted on Fitba North. Even on Fitba North though interest in junior football is close to non-existent because who is going to follow Forres Thistle rather than Forres Mechanics or Glentanar rather than Aberdeen? Almost nobody. This subforum always tended to be west dominated because there is still a decent level of interest in a significant number of clubs there. They are all away to the WoS subforum now. There still seems to be plenty of life in that, so nothing much has changed in the big scheme of things from what I can see.

Agree that the HL and NCL are unlikely to ever be a factor on this, but think the key point is that participating in both the SJC and SCC is unlikely to be sustainable long term for the 50 or so west region clubs that are still in the SJFA. Either the SJC is going to slowly shrivel up and die or humpty dumpty will be put back together again where a nationally-branded cup is concerned. There is no need to even add an extra round if the remaining east and north region clubs were integrated into the SCC under SJC branding. That would be the common sense solution, if people in the southern portion of West Lothian could bury the hatchet and finally move beyond the senior vs junior thing in the way that happened in the west region and should be happening soon in the north region. Not holding my breath on rational thought being the prevailing approach on this though...

Might be a link to Shettleston? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shettleston_F.C.

The north region are supposed to be on the verge of becoming a tier 6 feeder as part of the SJFA, while the WoS apparently can still be represented on the SJFA management committee if they want to be, which I suspect might turn out to be the case if they vote in all the old west region officeholders. This junior vs senior thing probably has no neat clear cut resolution in other words. All the SJFA really does is in the larger scheme of things is run the junior cup. If the dueling banjo types in the southern portion of West Lothian can ever get around to resolving their feud it might be good to see humpty dumpty put back together again in terms of having a national cup rather than the south challenge cup, which doesn't seem to quite capture the public imagination in the same way.

Did you miss the obvious piece of flame bait? There is no need to have both the LL/EoS and east region running in parallel. The sooner there is a single league structure the better.

It's the HL that gets to decide who to make an agreement with as they are already recognised as the tier 5 league. If the north region have to sign off as well before the NCL can get in, it will be because it suits the HL for things to unfold that way.

^^^FWF recently used a 2010 version of the Highland League constitution to try to claim that you don't need to be licensed to join the HL. In a similar way outdated information is being recycled here because it fits a preferred narrative. This recent flurry of posts on this topic was initiated by info from an NCL officeholder linked to Tain St Duthus that was posted on Fitba North. According to him the NCL have agreed to the HL's terms to be a tier 6 feeder, and they are now waiting for the response from the north juniors to determine whether this goes ahead in 2020-21. http://www.fitbanorth.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8529#p733592 This was followed up on here by this:

It would be easy enough to do, but this is not what is currently happening. Only the NCL and the north region are negotiating with the HL in the relevant working group and the future status of Tayside never even rates a mention when this gets discussed in HL circles online or gets reported by media outlets from north of Stonehaven. It only ever gets brought up by people on P&B as far as I can see.

No idea how you can reach that conclusion when the various parties in the PWG meetings were given a set of options to discuss that included Option Z. The postures adopted by both the SJFA and LL/EoS blocked anything other than the emergence of the WoS from being a viable pathway for pyramid entry by clubs from the west. Under those circumstances setting up the WoS and allowing ongoing SJFA membership was the sensible course of action, because there was no other way to first break the logjam and then manage to keep all the west clubs in the same structure. In the short term the emergence of the WoS as a tier 6 LL feeder was definitely a decisive victory for the LL/EoS over the SJFA in blazer politics terms. Longer term, however, the east is almost certainly going to wind up as the most under-represented part of the country at tier 5 because of the structure that is now in place. The HL can probably be viewed as the main long term winners, especially if they now get to effectively jettison Tayside in de facto terms by only agreeing to negotiate with the north region and NCL as tier 6 feeders.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but what the LL will probably do is try to link the rule change to some concession from the SPFL that favours them. Automatic relegation where Club 42 is concerned might be a bridge too far but well worth taking a swing at to see what the counter offer would be. I suspect the SPFL's first response on hearing that was the threats you describe rather than further negotiation. Time will tell on how it all unfolds but Tayside going into the LL catchment still looks like the probable outcome. No point getting het up over this stuff. The cooler head that thinks strategically a few steps ahead usually wins in these types of negotiations. The former EoS premier clubs that were in at the foundation of the LL and most of the larger ex-junior present day EoS premier clubs will probably be the losers long term at this point in terms of status in another decade or so once the LL becomes west dominated. They really should have thought more carefully about the longer term implications of Option Z when it was on the table rather than going all cherry menthol about Tom Johnston and a parallel east feeder.

They still have to go to Tayside for east region level cup games. They are unlikely to ever wind up in a Tayside heavy division in an EoS context unlike what happened two seasons ago with the east superleague. The fears are overblown.

My understanding is that the reason they might sign up is mainly to get rid of Banks o' Dee and stop them from hogging all the silverware due to the cash injection they get from full SFA membership as they would be forced to accept promotion to keep their licence if they won the north superleague. At that point if nobody else gets licensed nothing much changes.

The only way in for Whitburn and co will be the EoS. Once Livingston United go the West Lothian league setup is probably about two more defections and/or abeyances away from completely unravelling. The Tayside angle probably isn't in any way pivotal to what will happen in other words.

The first part makes no sense. The SJFA could represent the Tayside clubs in the same way it did in the LL PWG meetings. Tom Johnston's posture was that all of the east region and all of the now departed west region should be LL feeders, so the north region was able to fly solo where the HL is concerned on pyramid matters. Senior SFA officeholders were happy to go along with that arrangement and tried to make it happen but could not overcome the obstacle of the EoS having a veto over changes to the LL playoff. The second part is on the money. The SPFL and HL want the Club 42 boundary shifted or eliminated from the rules and the only impediment to that happening is the LL. The HL is only negotiating to take on tier 6 feeders in the parts of the country it views as its traditional catchment and does not want Tayside. The EoS accepted Luncarty and is taking the posture that any club from north of the line can apply subject to membership approval. That is useful for them as a way of eliminating any possible rationale for a role for the east region. That's the obvious way in for any Tayside club that wants to be part of the pyramid because the Midland League concept is unlikely to be accepted at tier 6 by either the HL or LL

No, they should do their best to look after numero uno because everybody else has been in all of this.