capt_oats

I'd be surprised if he didn't get next week but out of curiosity I had a look at the runs preceding recent managers leaving and respective league positions: Alexander (sacked/mutual consent - 29th July 2022) (N/A previous season 5th) - 3 wins in 18 league games Robinson (resigned - 31st December 2020) (10th) - 0 wins in 8 league games McGhee (sacked - 28th February 2017) (10th) - 2 wins in 13 league games Baraclough (sacked 23rd September 2015) (9th) - 2 wins in 8 league games McCall (resigned - 2nd November 2014) (10th) - 2 wins in 12 league games I mean, Hammell is currently 11th with 1 win in 15 and no prior track record to fall back on. That...doesn't look good?

I mean, I'd prefer to avoid finding out how we'd get on in the Championship altogether tbh. Along with others on here I'm one of the "never seen us relegated" (but have see us win the Scottish Cup) crowd and it's a nice group to be in IMO. I imagine it's one thing to be relegated because we're broadly shite but another to be relegated because we're obviously shite and didn't do anything about it. It'd be even more mind blowing if we chose not to do anything about it out of some sort of misplaced loyalty to an inexperienced manager who, as I type, is on a run of 1 league win in 15 and stands as having our 3rd worst win % since 1911. Let's not do that. On one hand I don't get Hammell decision to leave the relatively secure Academy role but at the same time I can see how you could lose the run of yourself and over commit - especially after winning the opening game against St Mirren. That said, it takes some amount of chutzpah to think "Yeah, I've no first team managerial experience but how hard can it be?"

Personally I've become invested in the whole league reconstruction idea. Definitely think that expansion is the way forward.

I don't disagree, to an extent, but I suppose the counter to is that regardless of what we think, players play to instruction. If they don't then they get papped out the team. If they follow the manager's instructions and they under perform - I'm not entirely sure that certain managers are going to own that while fans generally only see it as the player fucking up. If the manager is setting the team up in such a way that doesn't play to their strengths but is still playing these players anyway (*waves at Sean Goss and Callum Slattery*) then it's a problem. Even more so if it becomes a consistent thing. It's partly why, IMO, Hammell's post-match line of "Disappointing. We had a good week in training and were well prepared. So yeah, disappointing." has increasingly felt like he's telling on himself. As I've said, IMO there are currently far too many players who have gone off a cliff from where they were (even under Alexander) for this to be a case of some players needing to take a look at themselves (although there's an element of that). To me it suggests entirely fundamental issues that are generally only rectified in one way. Besides the winning games of football thing part of Hammell's brief is to develop and get the best out of the players he has at his disposal. The fact that there's barely a player in the squad that you can say has improved since he has been in the job and the list of those who have regressed is as long as your arm doesn't reflect well on him or his staff.

I'm not sure it even matters who it is tbh. I mean, even allowing for confirmation bias on my part, as anonymous "sources" on a Scottish Fitba' Forum go that information probably falls at the 'least surprising' end of the scale. It's not exactly Deep Throat levels of scandal. You only have to look at the extreme level of regression on the park to work out something's not right. The sheer number of players whose form has gone off a cliff means I'm not even sure this is a circumstance where I can blame the players much. Ultimately if feels like we're at the stage now where everyone does their wee dance and we go through the motions until eventually the manager gets (rightly) launched. I said it the other day but Hammell's comments about still having "backing" was very vote-of-confidence-y and you're right it seemed like a huge red flag. At the very least, it suggested that someone at board level has had a word in his ear about results. I thought the latest in his line of "yeah, disappointed..." videos was a guy who is completely fucking lost. This is something I had been thinking about as well. Not specifically about Lasley but just about the change in "culture" we saw at the club when Robinson took over properly from McGhee in 17/18. We seem to be a million miles from that just now under Hammell and it's been brought into focus by what Robinson seems to have built in Paisley. Team building and man management is a skill in itself and one that Robinson, certainly initially, seems to be good at and it seems like he has the personality that he's effective in cultivating and growing a "culture" amongst a group. I know it's an obvious bit but when you look at the number of his former players he has at St Mirren and the turn he's getting out of them it's fair to say that a decent % of players seem to want to play for him. Hammell, on the face of it so far, less so.

The "official" story is here: https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2020/05/20/when-motherwell-were-the-kings-of-spain/

I don't think you can reasonably say that sanctioning the signing of *checks notes* 9 (NINE) players is the board throwing Hammell under a bus. Regardless of the timing. Deals take as long as they take. Maybe we'd spoken to CDs and DMs in the weeks before the window opened trying to get them done early but the players chose to go elsewhere. Maybe they didn't like the pitch Hammell and the recruitment team were making. I think he admitted himself at various points through January that they thought they had deals done but they fell down. Ultimately recruitment is part of Hammell's remit and he should be judged on it. Sidebar: talking about remits - a lot was made of Alexander hitting his KPIs as part of the reason why the board stuck with him. Which is fair enough. Presumably the development of players is within Hammell's purview. How many players can we honestly say have either developed or improved in a positive way compared to where they were even in the last game at Pittodrie? None? You can point to the results and form not being good enough but he's failing at the other stuff too.

It's possible to mention both Hammell and Kerr in criticism without it mitigating Hammell's responsibility. Like I say though, you crack on.

Sound. You crack on with your misguided perceptions.

You're actually telling me what I mean? Are you fucking high?

whit? Mitigate the full amount of my anger of a club legend?! FWIW, I'm not angry about anything...Just disappointed. I group them together because this is our coaching team. It's Hammell's responsibility but in the context of our group of players regressing to the extent they have the fact that we have a manager who had zero first team managerial or coaching experience and he's been paired (by choice) with a coach whose experience was relegating Albion Rovers and 12 games at EK seems relevant. Dunno, it seems pertinent...important even in the context of the thread where people are wondering why we might have regressed.

Aye, that came out in the aftermath of the Alexander binning. IIRC the McGhee sacking was announced the Tuesday after the 5-1 vs Dundee. Unless he walks (he won't) I'd expect him to be in position next week. I could even see the board politely making a suggestion that he maybe gets some help as a solution rather than sacking him (see Robinson re-appearing on McGhee's staff).

Tbh, for all I've been saying he's toast I'd be surprised if it was imminent. It's the sort of thing I can imagine the board would talk through over a few days. I could easily see him getting the SC game next week. I think it's almost certainly in the post though.

Every chance he equals our best return in recent seasons IMO. 15/16 - Moult - 15 16/17 - Moult - 15 17/18 - Moult - 8 (left in December) 18/19 - Turnbull - 15 19/20 - Donnelly / Long - 7 each (league curtailed) 20/21 - Cole - 11 21/22 - Van Veen / Watt - 9 each

Massively this. @Casagolda mentioned it earlier but compare today with the 2-3 at Pittodrie earlier in the season. At that point it felt like there was a common focus - even if it was as basic as wanting a GIRUY to Alexander. The longer Hammell and Kerr have been in the job the worse we've been getting to the point that now, as you say, we don't look like we have a clue what we're doing and have a collection of (apparently) entirely unmotivated players. If the player performances are getting worse and the team performances are getting worse that, unfortunately, reflects on the manager and his coaching staff.

Tbh, I think you're reading way too much into that or at the very least over thinking it. When it comes down to it I think it's as simple as Hammell and Kerr simply not being very good coaches for this level of football and the level of player they're being asked to work with. The regression in players is absolutely nuts. I don't know how much Kerr has honed his coaching skills in the past few years but if it still amounts to screaming "lazy leg is fucking lazy" at a player then it's hardly a surprise we're not seeing any sort of reaction. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Pretty much this. As I said earlier in the thread IMO he's toast now. You don't come back from a league record of 1 win in 15, no wins in 11 and only 1 (ONE) win at home all season. Everyone involved would do well to just own the situation now instead of kidding themselves on. Hammell doesn't even have the track record of turning things around to fall back on in the same way Robinson did. Just admit we lost the run of ourselves in making the appointment and make the decision. We've emptied enough managers in our time to know when it's the right thing to do. The one thing that might actually benefit us just now is a fresh voice and a fresh set of eyes.

Didn't hear it but I've pretty much accepted that he's toast now tbh. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon...(and for the rest of his life). In that respect whatever he gets up to in the next couple of games is just a prelude to his emptying.

Johnson played midfield for QotS right enough.

Ach, I'm sure we'll be "well prepared" having had a "good week in training".

Actually you could be right. Going by the way the players are listed on the team line. Some laugh like.

It's almost certainly a 532. It's interesting because he was clear about his plan to play with 2 strikers having been scuppered with Mandron's injury. I'd guess

Just to check this from the close of the summer window: Ojala - Blaney in Aarons (loan cancelled) - Crankshaw in Moult (loan cancelled) - Mandron (immediately injured) in - Obika in Fox - N/A Penney (end of loan) - Furlong in Johansen - Casey in Connelly (loan) - N/A Speirs (loan) - N/A Maguire (loan) - Butcher in Shields (loan) - Danzaki in It really only leave Aitchison as an additional incoming that's not been like for like. Our first team squad (including 3 long term injured players plus Morris) comes in at 27 players.

Aye. Like, I still have questions. Specifically about left back and centre back not to mention our continued reliance on Ricki fucking Lamie but there are bodies there at least. I'm still heavy sceptical about Hammell and especially Kerr as coaches but tbf, I didn't doubt that we were looking to address those areas my issue was that as of Tuesday night we'd failed to address them. I get that January's a tough window at the best of times and it's compounded by our situation and I imagine these deals would have been agreed in principle before the window closed but deals fall over - I'm sure many did for us while the window was open. It's maybe mitigating but that doesn't really help us when we're finishing a game on Wednesday night with 1 (ONE) fit senior CB on our books with the window having SLAMMED shut.

9 out, 9 in. Out: Aarons (loan cancelled), Moult (loan cancelled), Fox, Penney (end of loan), Johansen, Connelly (loan), Speirs (loan), Maguire (loan), Shields (loan) = 9 In: Blaney, Crankshaw (loan), Mandron (immediately injured), Danzaki, Aitchison, Furlong (loan), Obika (loan), Casey, Butcher = 9 Can't really argue that Hammell hasn't been backed like. Tbh, looking at that squad it should be an absolutely fine mid-table team. It's on Hammell and Kerr now.