Reynard

I wonder how the archaeologists have got on digging up all those Palestinian artefacts from days of yore. That stuff must be worth a fucking fortune! A fine Palestinian vase from the period of one of their greatest leaders would be quite a find. I reckon that would actually be a coffee mug probably made in Hong Kong that old Yasser drank from once.

Who were the great leaders of the fine nation of Palestine prior to Yasser Arafat? I simply can't think of any at all. But I'm sure they would have resided in the capital city fo Palestine, but damn! I forget the name of it because I'm soooo old! Maybe you can enlighten me? Ask your muslim flatmate burds, they'll know!

I think the thread XBL is trying toi direct everyone to is the one where he thought he had placed the ace of spades down on the table. A British Palestinian Mandate passport! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFT!

I guess we won't be getting your answer to those incredibly easy historical questions about Palestine then? I suppose even a simple naming of the capital city of Palestine would do the job fine. Go on! You know you want to!

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by SS-18 ICBM . View it anyway? Him? f**k knows what's chewed him up.

What's good for the goose.... I don't expect an answer to any of those questions anyway as there is no answer to any of them as Palestinians didn't exist as a people. There was no such country as Palestine either. Although I'm willing to be proven horribly wrong if you can answer those questions (which you cannot).

I'm sticking you on ignore. You're a dreadful bore.

You seem to be having some sort of breakdown over this. I see you accused HB of the same thing much to his bewilderment. I suppose it makes you happy so if you want to play in that particular sand pit then go for it. I gave you a high quality history lesson on why there has never been any such people as Palestinians, including quotes from Yasser Arafat and a variety fo other PLO leaders who backed this up. I'll give you a wee list of questions for you to wriggle out of answering. When was Palestine founded and who founded it? What were it's borders? What was it's capital? Who were it's leaders? What sort of governments did it have? Name it's major cities and trading areas? What things did it trade in, what was the basis of it's economy? Who were the Palestinian leaders before Yasser Arafat? What other countries recognised Palestine as a sovereign country? What language did Palestinians speak? What was it that causd the demise of Palestine as was?

That's quite good to know. I'll keep that handy, it will be like a bug spray for threads you infest with your shite.

Do you agree that Israel should be a state?

I systematically destroyed your argument the last time. I haven't changed my stance one iota actually. What YOU fail to grasp is that this isn't about Palestinians at all. They don't give a f**k about that, it's entirely about getting rid of Jews from the face of the planet. I helpfully put up Hamas's own charter for your perusal yesterday. Their aims are nothing whatsoever to do with a Palestinian homeland. It's not so much that I'm biased, it's just that I happen to know a lot more about this than you seem to do. This isn't remotely about land, this is about religious fundamentalism, and in particular its about Islamic jihadists who want to obliterate Jews. Those are the people you are cheerleading for son.

What are you going on about now?

It wouldn't necessarily have mattered whether those guys were voted in or not. They'd still have been pumping rocket shells across the hedge at random regardless. You only need to read their charter that I stuck on here yesterday to understand what they are all about. They don't give a shit about "Palestinians", they want to rid the world of Jews.

Just stick them in a field with that other set of buckled jihadist fuckwits Fatah and let them kill each other. I'm quite sure the average Palestinian would be fucking delighted to be rid of both sets of fuckers.

I can't imagine the likes of Jordan slinging Dana International into the Muslim song contest somehow.

Although I did find this here http://www.mpacuk.org/story/260611/myth-open-tolerant-and-secular-israeli-society.html which offers a sharp rebuttal of that scurrilous claim. But it's by buckled Muslim c***s, so I rather suspect they are maybe coming at it from a slightly biased angle there.

I said that Israel is a secular society.

I always find it hilarious that a lot of the daft lefties that took up the cudgels for the Palestinian Muslim totalitarians who jail, torture and execute gays, beat women for wearing immodest dress and refuse to even let them have a vote in many cases or even an education in the worst cases,the Palestinians are not a democracy and are run by at least two warring terrorist groups, and they have sharia law. In contrast, Israel is secular, allows gay pride marches, who have nudist beaches and allow women to have full participation in society, is a functioning democracy, and where there are more atheists living in Israel than live across the water from us in Ireland FFS! You have to wonder what it is these leftists actually see in the Palestinian cause or even why they sook the boaby of Islam with such relish as it stands for pretty much everything that they hate.

Maybe SS isn't happy because he's an Islamist and in Israel arab WOMEN!!!! have the vote too!

What is YOUR particular beef with Israel anyway? Is it the formation of the state itself? Or is it what has happened afterwards? Is it simply down to something you dislike about the Jews? Is it down to the fact that one and a half million arabs live INSIDE Israel and don't show any great desire to be fucking off out the road of their oppressors? What specific criticisms are you actually making and then we can get down to some sort of debate with you.

I found this on youtube. Astonishing scenes.

Yeah, but in that area of the world it's pretty significant to a number of worldwide religions so, while YOU might find it a bit retarded, THEY don't. And they are willing to seemigly die for their beliefs, which I'm pretty sure you are not prepared to do. (and neither am I!)

The starting point for any of this is whether you think there should be a state called Israel in the first place. If anyone disagrees with that then it actually does affect their entire attitude towards the debate. If someone agrees that the state should be there but thinks the way the Palestinians are treated is terrible then thats more or less my position. What is then difficult is the fact that Islamic fundamentalism then comes into play because as can be seen in the Hamas document I posted up there, these people are not coming from a position of actualkly wanting to give their people a homeland. That is NOT their aim here. Their aim is to rid the area of all Jews, that is their stated position and these people are in charge in Gaza. The situation is far far more complicated than simply a do gooding attempt to "be on the side of the oppressed". These are not reasonable people (either side), the Palestinians were offered their homeland in 1948, maybe someone out there who is on the side of the oppressed can go back to that point in time and tell me exactly what happened? It looked pretty much to me like the arabs were not especially enamoured with the fact that a Jewish state had been set up and they ganged up on it in an attempt to annihilate it on day one. THAT'S why the Palestinians lost out on their land. BUT, thats not the end of it, they were offered a deal again to have their own homeland including the vast bulk of the West Bank, Gaza and having East Jerusalem as their capital city. Arafat rejected this and started the second intifada. Hardly the actions of a man hell bent on getting land for his people (he was Egyptian ) to start building their country up, getting an infrastructure together and attempting to make life easier for the ordinary Palestinian punter. I'm pretty sure that like most other ordinary folk, they all just want to get on with their lives in peace. As ever, it's the actions of a small band of political/religious elites that causes all the bother. So, yes, Palestinians are hard done to, no doubt about that. They are also badly led by a bunch of jihadists hell bent on a completely different agenda to the "homeland" issue. And yes, the Israelis are bawbags as well for the way they treat their enemy. I do support the right of Israel to exist and to defend their civilians and their property. Thats the basic function Id expect from any state. But anyone truly expecting to see peace in the area is naive in the extreme, and it might be interesting to see which people on here support the right of Israel to be a state and which people don't think it should be there at all. And BTW to XBL, the longer range rockets being launched on Tel Aviv were Iranian made and were bought with some of the wedge that gets floated in to Gaza as development aid.

In your opinion. Which frankly, isn't worth a f**k on this or any other issue in spite of your overinflated view of your own self worth.

^^^ And so we descend into the normal trolling operation Well done. I guess you just can't help it.