O'Kelly Isley III

It's extremely easy to be philosophical on a quiet Wednesday, but even for the very supportive group of fans at Dumbarton last Saturday was a crossing of the rubicon and seemed to crystallise what has been slowly evident and what, left unchecked, is about to unfold. We can always accept defeat with good grace but Ayr Utd, like several other mid-order teams already this season, just had to be committed, motivated and reasonably organised to turn us over. There are reasons for that, and that's what we're choosing to discuss and debate here. There is a direct parallel with exactly five calendar years ago; at that time the club was able to effect remedial action but that doesn't look to be an option this time round. Those 27 remaining games are looking like a sair experience in the making - not a happy prospect

To be honest, I was always alarmed by the early-season braggadocio of some of our posters on here re the playing squad. I've been of the opinion that it's patchy at best and that view is now being accompanied by a realisation that some guys are simply not of the quality to compete in the Championship. And the balance has never looked right. Sure the Management team assembled the team, but on a tight(er) budget. Against that, were what funds were available invested wisely ? Like yourself, Consolidate, I don't want us to go down in the manner of 20 years ago, but on growing evidence we might not have any great say in that. I'm thinking of the new stadium to take my mind off it

The last days at Boghead saw fans watching matches in a run-down dump with precious little by way of facilities. And they coincided with playing in the bottom division of Scottish football, a combination hardly conducive to good crowds. No-one is wearing rose-tinted specs, but days gone by are helpful in comparing just how poor the value for money is in 2016. And banging on about average attendances has got to take account of visiting supporters in order to avoid skewing the picture; in that respect our home support is almost down to the bones of its arse right now. Tell you what, ask our Community Director what the walk-up numbers actually paying cash at the Home End have been for the last two home games - I don't know but I'd be astonished if they were in excess of 200. And as I've alluded to above, there are firm reasons for that.

There's a host of reasons why our support is diminishing (seeing as how Nowhereman is splitting hairs...), but the main one is probably economic. This area rates very poorly in the table of local authorities for employment and income and following the Sons has become the pursuit of the committed only - the passing trade has gone, probably forever. Another point to note is the relationship between the public and the club (as opposed to the team itself). I've long ago formed the opinion that we are not a friendly club and occasional comments by visitors and hospitality guests bears this out; at times it's almost as if the public is a necessary inconvenience. Reputation-wise, I don't think we score well either in the local community in general and it won't be the first time that a parent has approached me concerning the latest convulsion in the youth set-up at DFC. We just seem to be in a permanent state of angst. I've already gone over the Brabco situation and the more I think about that I fear for it. There is no logical reason for us to move anywhere - indeed the diminishing home support only reinforces this - and whilst there are undoubtedly maintenance issues around the current stadium this whole concept looks increasingly flawed. Bizarre perhaps to suggest it, but perhaps only relegation will bring some sanity to bear in terms of the ground issue, entry prices and most importantly, the greedy cash demands of many mediocre Scottish footballers and their agents. That last point is crucial too; the public has increasingly seen thro the' kiss-the-badge-then f***-off' shit and are equally fed-up of the annual scrabbling around to even put a team on the park. Another reason why only the anoraks like us who post on here are left.

It's a point I made some time ago but the posters' consensus then was that you want your team to be performing at the highest level possible. Fair enough, but when you are barely competing, never mind performing and entertaining, then only a masochist would wish to repeatedly wish to stoically sit thro the likes of yesterday. And as I've already also posted, the achievements in terms of results and league standing in the last five seasons have been nothing short of astonishing, given the very odd system of governance which exists at DFC. In essence, it seems that all football business is conducted and budgeted by local Directors required to operate with minimal input in any shape or form from the club's majority shareholders, Brabco. We should never overlook this as it ultimately affects everything on the playing side. And that will be Brabco, the group of business individuals with no known track record of ever having delivered the sort of project they now aspire to here in Dumbarton. They want a return on their investment but the numbers and logistics are semi-fantastic, and when reality intrudes that could have very serious ramifications indeed for the future of Dumbarton FC;I believe that situation is potentially much more troubling than a threat of relegation following a miserable season. As for Alloa, they have a very confident and apparently financially well-upholstered Chairman in Mike Mulraney, so other than the clubs' relative history, status and support base I don't see any great comparison. In fact, in view of what I've described above I'd be hard-pressed to think of any valid comparison in Scottish football right now.

Interesting to see Alan Adamson referenced; I said today with 10 minutes or so to go that the wheel has now turned full circle to five years ago. Our team is an unbalanced mix, almost totally devoid of confidence with a Manager who looks to be really struggling. There is one significant difference however; I very much doubt that the club could currently afford to roll up the remainder of his and Stevie Farrell's contracts, so unless he elects to fall on his sword we may well all have to stumble on. I've always supported SA's appointment and have on occasions have given him the benefit of the doubt, but the evidence is there for all to see. Dubious teams selections - why wasn't Bucky in beside Sparky today, releasing Barr to patrol the deep midfield and allow Joe Thompson to push forward in what was a HOME game FFS - allied to stiflingly negative tactics and weird substitutions (what about the last two this afternoon?) have sapped both the players and the supporters. What to do ? Well, a clear the air meeting giving everyone a say would be a start, allied to getting Garry fit enough to start regularly alongside Thommo. Aye, two strikers, that revolutionary. I'd also consider moving Sparky into left or central midfield, depending on how that dovetails with Stanton, with Gal and Todd making up a four man middle in a 4-4-2 formation. Yes, that's right ,no starting place for Smith or Stevenson, with the latter now looking to be much more an expensive tent pole than a marquee signing. But what do I know ??

Well yes, to be quite honest. Dumbarton High Street in 1964 would have looked pretty recognisable against the 1914 version, but both would have looked like Rodeo Drive compared to the 2014 version, both in terms of the retail spread, levels of economic activity and above all sense of community purpose. Now there are a whole host of reasons for that decline, some of them unavoidable and some highly avoidable, but all I'm saying is that for those of us old enough to recall the High Street and it's denizens in much better nick pictures likes these are quite sad in a way.

That picture makes me almost weep Rab. And I'm reminded of the film 'It's A Wonderful Life' in which the pleasant town of Bedford Falls descends into a dystopian dump called 'Pottersville', all because George Bailey's bank went under. Banks are about all that remain from that picture; to think that as late as the 1960's we had two licensed grocers, bespoke tailors, a stationers and a saddlers for Heaven's sake !

I visited the website of Culross Developments who are proposing the housing development on the old Hiram Walker's site, as well as the idea of a walkway from the quay to the base of the Rock, including visitor centre, etc., Whilst I noticed that this proposal is scheduled for a WDC Planning Meeting next month, I couldn't find any site plan or map of what is proposed. There was a small artist's impression shown, and it looked to me as if the stadium had vanished - has anyone seen what's in this application at the Rock end ??

So, Jack Ross to take the reins at St Mirren. Discuss.

I've been pondering the current situation vis-à-vis Stevie Aitken, and whilst there's no doubt that he an Faz are doing all they can, a couple of things spring to mind. I wonder if there is any sort of hangover from the Raith managerial vacancy when his name was apparently linked at one stage, and secondly I remain troubled by a remark he made at last season's POTY Dance when he revealed that he was advised by parties unstated 'not to touch the DFC job'. Now if true, why would that be ? Because we are a plucky wee club tilting at bigger clubs, or is this a particularly difficult club for anyone to be Manager ? If it is the latter then that would be a worry indeed.

Just checking, folks, if this thread is still active, if only in a technical sense.......

Yes, and that's a shame as I was looking forward to the chant of 'Amadou, Dou, Dou, shake the Hibees from the tree....'

Dear, dear, So8, you really must stop torturing yourself like this........

Kevin Gaughan was a left-sided CB with two heids.......

The situation is not totally as bleak as some may assume, on or off the pitch, nor is it a bed of roses. And yes there are money concerns, there always are at Scottish part-time clubs, but ours are hugely exacerbated by the frankly bizarre nature of the ownership of DFC - and that last point needs to enter the consciousness of every Sons fan on here. We are in effect living in rented accommodation and having to fund every last cent ourselves, with a landlord determined to sell off the place whilst indulging in some extremely wishful thinking marked 'new accommodation'. That same landlord couldn't give a f*** if the roof leaks and the lights fail - they are interested only in cashing in on the real estate. So, on small gates and limited other income we will naturally struggle to provide a Manager with funds sufficient to attract and retain the calibre of player required to keep us in the Championship. I'm no cheerleader for the Board of DFC but these guys and the last two Managers have IMO performed a pretty remarkable job in the circumstances. If we go down like a brick then this season so be it. We are a club punching above it's weight but as long as Brabco effectively have the reins we will have problems; maybe it's about time these land speculators received some of the criticism that flows freely on here.

Mark Brown breaking cover is perhaps a sign that all is indeed not well right now in the playing staff. As regards the guy himself, I'd seen enough last season to wave him off but the Manager awarded him a 2-year deal, so it could get a bit messy. Another aspect which fans rarely consider is the relationship between the team management and the club Board/Chairman. The budget was overspent last season and although it would follow that would have an impact on team-building I'm wondering if there has recently been some brinkmanship over the squad size and content following the League Cup debacle. If so, that added to the Raith Rovers Manager's vacancy nonsense would hardly be conducive to harmony; Ian Murray's relationship with the Board eventually disintegrated and (based only on my own reading) I'd not be at all surprised if there are currently tensions in the camp.

Hmmm...that's dispiriting to hear. The game has just finished and it sounds like a pretty grotesque scoreline if we are to believe the (very patronising) summaries of Charlie Mann on the BBC. No word whatsoever on Joe Thompson, Alan Martin or Daniel Harvie and I'd be interested to hear some opinions. It sounds though as if Darren Barr may need to return in defence.

The Thompson loan signing could be an excellent one; this time last year a Celtic-supporting work colleague was really singing his praises, ahead of Jamie Lindsay joining us.

That Record article should be pinned to the dressing room wall, but it's great to know that with the experts expectations set so low we can relax and try our utmost to confound them - again.

Having watched Mark Brown over the last season I don't want him anywhere near the first team; indeed at times I've marvelled at his career record. If Martin is as good as reported and Barclay as flakes then we release the latter and have Jazz and Martin vie for the position. Some of the sniping at Jazz is way out of order by the way.

Dunno what happened above but we now seem to have moved firmly into whistling in the dark territory as regards team building - as it stands the current squad must be the most threadbare to approach a season in living memory. My patience is all but exhausted. e

Lindsay was one of a number of key players for us last term but loans are just that, and seldom repeated. I've no doubt the Stevie's are trying very hard right now but we're maybe not the easiest sell.

I fear we are now in danger of bulking the numbers as opposed to getting quality loaners, but I'll be happy to be proved wrong. But it may be less PITK as MAYDAY.