Cutty Old

So, you don't buy newspapers anymore but the best out of all the ones you don't buy is the Guardian ? Ok !

I´ve come in from the pool in my hotel in Puerto Mogan in Gran Canaria and after reading some of this I cannot believe that the fans and the clubs are still being treated with contempt. This was supposed to be a nice relaxing week in the sun and now it´s brought me back to raging. I don´t care who came up with this con`- job but we cannot let them do this in our name. This is all about principle for me. If the clubs decide to take a vote to put them into division one we, the fans, can take it up with our clubs and boycott, walk away or whatever. That´s not what is happening here. They are press-ganging the clubs into their pre-ordained decision. The clubs must refuse to vote on these terms. For goodness sake, the association is supposed to reflect the wishes of its members. if the SFL or the SPL or the SFA want to ride roughshod over everyone they need to be seen as having done that and we can then decide, as fans and clubs, where we go next. If the vote takes place and they are dropped into division one, the clubs have given the go-ahead and they should be conscious of the fact that this is what they are doing. If they don´t get the necessary votes they will no doubt create SPL2. They will save face financially but we will all be subjected to many more years of the same rubbish that the SPL has given us for all these years. They cannot wait to get back to the main event..........Rangers v Celtic. Are all these clubs happy to choose ÝES´? Sad.......very sad. p.s. Could the Pie and Bovril regulars please sort this out ? Ineed to go and apply some ´`After-Sun´´

Pedantic grammar thread for this tripe

Assuming Sevco now qualify for the first division, is there any merit in Spartans applying for division 1 also ? If not, why not ?

Isn't it strange that some people think the only guilty parties are those who are 'kicking Rangers when they are down" ? A recurring statement is "Haven't we been punished enough" ? There are plenty of people out there who would do well to read your post and try to respond. Please tell us where we are all going wrong.

Your scenario reads like all kinds of reasonable compared to the corrupt practices that have been taking place up the road. We will get a hold of the Ayrshire Cup. All it takes is a wee bit of complacencey, just turn your back once and we'll whip it away. well, the likliehood of winning it on the park is so remote that we may need to stoop to a new low to achieve our goals. Do you know any other club who engaged in that type of behaviour ? Clue: they wear wore blue and they're not Kilmarnock.

Whatever the outcome of this fiasco, there must be resignations from those responsible for the threat that teams would be barred from promotion to SPL2. The scottish game is about EVERY team, not just the perceived giants. Turnbull Hutton is the ideal person to idemand an inquiry into the blackmail attempts by certain people. It is not acceptable to let this go once the dust settles. I am being careful to avoid names of those to be thrown out. A proper investigation should establish who the corrupt individuals are and they must be forced out. I hope the Raith Rovers Chairman is aware that the vast majority of fans of all clubs are 100% behind him. Sporting integrity has become a term to be scoffed at during this crisis. It seems that there is no such thing and some people prefer that sporting integrity should never be considered. Clear the decks, let's start again and let's create a real 'association' of clubs who stick rigidly to the rules of that association. That way we win or lose on our merits. That doesn't auger well for Ayr United but that's how it should be. If there are any clubs who think they should be above these principles and are not prepared to accept these conditions, refuse them entry. As for people like James Traynor, don't buy the comic that is the Daily Record. You know it makes sense not to. People like this imbecile must be hounded out. Edit to add: Turnbull Hutton, a man of real integrity.

I never thought the day would come...........but.........I agree with VT

Just laughed out loud............well done !

Ok, first of all, welcome to the forum. I gave you a greenie and you deserved it. Having said that, I've given you some latitude with the tail end of the post. That jersey is remarkably close to probably the most famous Ayr United jersey of all time. So, I hope you will follow up with an apology for the stress that your post may have caused to any of the Somerset faithful by suggesting it be worn by the home team at Ibrox. :blink:

I must apologise Waffen. I went off on my rant before I noticed your contribution. Good post !

The strategy taken by James Traynor, and quite a few others, is to label everyone who disagrees with Sevco being parachuted into the first division as having an axe to grind and taking their stance because of petty jealousy. Simplistic nonsense Mr Traynor. I, and many of my colleague diddies, have yet to taste any measure of success following our teams and we would have been content to continue with our support of the diddy teams in full knowledge that we would never win anything. Importantly, we insist on doing it in accordance with the rules. Plenty people are having their say about Mr. Traynor but this morning I am reserving my disdain for Michael Grant of The Herald; SPARE a thought for the poor souls hiding away around Scotland who might want to whisper "yes to newco". They must exist. Perhaps there are thousands of them. They must exist ? Why ? Because Michael says they must exist ? Top notch journalism backed up by extensive investigation........Pah ! Maybe the majority of Scottish League clubs will turn out to be supportive of letting Rangers join them at first-division level, but are too nervous about openly saying so. If not, and there is widespread or unanimous objection to the option favoured in the "Your Game, Your Club, Your Future" document sent around by the Scottish Football League executive, that's quite a slap in the face for the governing body. It is a slap in the face that is richly deserved for showing a lack of respect for the rules that govern our game. The "no to newco" campaign has been a brilliant success. It has served as a refreshing demonstration of how club owners and chairmen can be brought to heel – however reluctantly – by those to whom they are answerable. Club after club fell to the protest at SPL level and the mood has now swept up a growing number of lower-league clubs. Enough to deny Rangers admission to the SFL at first division level? That's hard to say, because the majority required to vote them in at that level isn't clear yet. It could be two-thirds of SFL clubs or 75%. Our leaders are so poor and indecisive that they still don't know what percentage of the vote will carry the decision ? Worse still, you don't even question that ? So far only the "no" side has really spoken up. Maybe that's a near unanimous position, but that's hard to believe. Why is it so hard to believe ? Views have been clouded by blind tribalism. Let me get this right. I'm reading this to hear your guesses ? Why not elicit the views of the fans ? Too lazy ? but even among fans of any given club, it is too big an issue for only one opinion to exist. The shame is that those who might think some good could come from all of this, or that there may be something in it for their own club, are nervous about saying so lest they get shouted down as Rangers apologists. You have decided, in your wisdom, that people who agree with the rule breaking are shy about expressing this point of view ? Where are these people ? As for them being nervous about being labelled as apologists, these 'thousands' must have told you this. So, they're happy to tell you but nobody else ? No-one is well served by this debate being reduced to crude, simplistic terms. "Yes" or "no" to newco. "Tough" or "lenient" on Rangers. Those who might have the temerity to think the idea of planting them in the first division has justifiable wider consequences – or "balances the need for short-term redemption with a least-worse-case financial scenario" as the SFL document puts it – haven't felt bold enough to say so. That's a pity, as it's a view that needs to be heard. And you are clearly airing that view. I would suggest that the view belongs to the scottish media and not to the fictional 'thousands' who are scared to speak. The Scottish League has already failed on one crucial respect. The document says "we need some clear communication priorities for the SFL" and talks of "logical and positive communication to eliminate doubt, threat and insecurity". They want the Rangers-in-the-first-division option to be embraced but have done nothing to sell it or set an agenda which might have made it sound appealing. Instead of using the media, they have played hard to get. Clubs will be consulted tomorrow but the momentum is already set: Raith Rovers, Falkirk, Clyde, Morton and others have jumped on to the "no to newco" campaign from SPL clubs and swept it into the lower leagues. Anything else is a much, much harder sell now. Maybe you should try interviewing the officials from these clubs to establish if they are acting out tribal warfare and kicking a club when they are down. Perhaps they would give you sensible reasoning for their decision to oppose this ridiculous idea. But the document talks of £16m being lost to Scottish football if Rangers have to start in the third division. That figure demands explanation. If it's accurate, it is a chilling sum. Clubs should be deeply worried about that, and be asking questions rather than rushing out statements. And yet you didn't think to question the author of this document ? Do you claim to be a journalist ? Of course Rangers into the first division is a fudge and a deliberate redrawing of the league structure in order to accommodate them. It's an ugly compromise and – to use the phrase associated with Tony Blair's re-election in 2005 – people may have to hold their noses if they vote for it. But if that helps to preserve other clubs at something close to their current levels without the risk of redundancies or administration, and acts as the catalyst for broader changes for the good of the whole game, it has to be looked at with maturity instead of being shouted down as a cheat's charter. And finally, you admit that the whole idea of parachuting this club into the first division is a fudge. If I may say so, you are a fudge too, minus the ge at the end of the word. If the warnings of economic meltdown without Rangers in either of the top two divisions are justified then let's hear far more details. "No to newco" is a perfectly sound view, but this debate is too important for only one side of the chamber to have a voice. OK Pet, so off you pop and start looking for the masses of people who are desperate to have Sevco in the first division. Good luck, youll need it. To think that people like Michael Grant are paid to write this drivel.

You should be grateful that we let you share our name. Edit to add: Forza Italia !!!!!!! (random, I know )

I hope that all this recent camaraderie isn't unnerving you. Just think, in a few weeks time the new season will be underway and we can get back to our default positions of despising one another. Having said that, if there's one profound change that has taken place as a direct result of this thread, it's that I now have a healthy respect for supporters of all diddy teams and especially for Kilmarnock supporters. I really have learned a lot more about people during this fiasco and it has added positively to my life experience. I know some decent, upstanding Rangers supporters who follow their team for all the right reasons and i feel for them at the moment. Unfortunately, the undesirable element that exists throughout their club, including owners, directors, management, staff and supporters makes me despair. So, come the first game, let's get back to the rivalry, the banter, the passion and the inevitable debates but let's try our best to do it without malice.

Your opinion is very important to me.

You can only dream about posting at a level consistently achieved by White Rose Killie. How bad is it that this is being pointed out by an Ayr supporter ?

Do you happen to have any connection with a certain Mr Leggate ? You sure sound like him and you are equally well informed. You don't appear to be too amused by the current situation and this may be a bad time to ask for a favour but here goes........... ..........you know how you hate all those naughty SPL clubs and you love all the SFL clubs ? Well, can I ask if my club could be included in your boycott of away grounds ? Just in case you really did care what people were replying................thanks for considering my request.

Or was it 'rust' ?

As focus shifts on a daily basis from one thing to another, it's understandable that vital elements of this saga are temporarily forgotten. We, on this forum are pressing hard for justice to be done, with Sevco being forced to apply to the third division and meanwhile, waiting in the background, are the important issues of the Appellate Tribunal decision and the investigation into double contracts. Without punishment from the tribunal and for the EBT double contracts being considered, the correct decision, in accordance with the rules, is that Sevco apply for their place in the third division and this is considered along with any other applications. Should Sevco come through the application process successfully, they will then have the same status as any other third division team. So, what sanctions can the authorities then take against Sevco for the two offences mentioned above ? It seems to me that the only way for Sevco to continue in scottish football is for the rules to be disregarded or the punishments to be merely tokenistic. Frankly, that would be wrong. The offences are so severe that, if justice is done, Sevco should not be a part of scottish football. It will be interesting to see what happens next. For me, and I suspect the vast majority of fans, the rules should be applied without fear or favour in the knowledge that the financial implications for some clubs will be hard to endure. The alternative would be to bypass sporting integrity in the interests of Sevco, the other mismanaged clubs and a self-interested media to restore the now former regime. A full and thorough evaluation of scottish football will be required to restore a modicum of respect to our game. The authorities know it, the clubs know it and we, the fans, know it. With the way things have gone up to this point I have no confidence in fairness being applied and if I'm right many of us will be lost to the game. The use of the word 'crisis' is not hyperbole. The upcoming days and weeks will make or break our national sport and I sincerely hope the influencers are aware of that.

So, you're a Barman......right ? and you know all that stuff ? You must have members of the faculty who are customers. Am I right ?

If you're checking the posts every half hour you've probably only read about 10% of the thread. Is there no end to the cheating ?

You haven't seen the size of big Lachlan's hands though. Don't jump to conclusions without the facts.

Did you have your fingers crossed when you typed that ? I'd love to hear your definition of a supporter and then to see how you justify calling Murray an Ayr supporter. He showed up on our doorstep, proclaimed himself as an Ayr fan and then, ironically, after promising that he would "....not be walking away" he legged it up the road and became a Rangers fan. Using 'supports' in the present tense is disingenuous. He's one of yours and we want nothing to do with him. That's what the Board of "The Honest Men" told him more than twenty years ago. Do you think, unlike you, he's got the message yet ?

The clock is ticking. I have until June 30th to renew my season ticket to catch the early bird price. It's not going to happen. I can't be true to myself if I renew in the current situation I find myself in. I don't ask for much. 45 years of winning nothing may seem like self-inflicted torture but I still have the same level of commitment to my club that I had in 1967 when I first attended a match at Somerset Park. During this time I have been enthralled by some of the great matches, the skill, the endeavour, the outrageous incidents, the humour, the banter, the passion, the joy and the sadness. However, it's now 2012 and the one thing that I could add to that list is to be torn from my grasp. Despite the empty trophy cabinet, one thing that I've always had is.............hope. But the football authorities have decided that I am no longer entitled to hope. It's to be confiscated. With the release of the new proposals for Scottish football, SFL teams have been handed an ultimatum. They have been told to ratify the inclusion of Sevco in the first division. They have been told to sanction rule-breaking. They have been told to reward cheating, theft, bigotry, arrogance and bullying. I use the word 'told' to emphasise my point. The SFL clubs have not been given a choice in the matter. They must agree to the new proposals..............or else ! There has been a direct threat to clubs who vote against Sevco's inclusion in the first division. If my club participate in blocking this proposal, SPL 2 will apparently be created and my club will be consigned to the wilderness and the flame inside me, that I described as hope, will have been extinguished. The truth is, Ayr United could go another 45 years without winning anything of note but I would still have been there, supporting my team, with my mates, my voice, my money and, of course, my hope. That's to be taken away from me now though. The powers-that-be in scottish football have colluded to present a new beginning for football in this country. They are not concerned about the views of the paying public, they don't care if the fans are against their new plans and they don't mind that every right-thinking football supporter is appalled by the reward being given to the biggest cheats in scottish football history. So, what did I do wrong ? What offence did my team commit ? How could me, or my club, have avoided this catastrophe ? Everyone connected with Rangers was complicit in their wrongdoing. The Board, the management, the players, the staff and the supporters. They are all guilty by association. Nevertheless, it is the supporters of every other team who will be sentenced in the next few days. That's justice................scottish football style. For years we've been calling for league reconstruction and now it's being thrust upon us. It looks nothing like what we have been asking for but the clever people have decided what we, the fools, will get. We will be given what's best for Sevco because that, sadly, is the immediate priority for scottish football. Everything else and everyone else is secondary. It's with a heavy heart that, should these proposals come to fruition, I'll be turning my back on scottish football. I will no longer stand at the Somerset Road end of the ground, shouting on my team, urging them to produce their best and win the match. These corrupt individuals will have taken from me something that I can't afford to lose......................hope.

At last someone genuine, someone with integrity, someone with principles.