[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Scottish Premier League chief executive Neil Doncaster believes a 10-team top league would generate increased revenue from television broadcast deals.

Remember this How Doncaster said it had to happen. Does anyone think there is a chance that

all the clubs are miles apart on how to deal with a new co. Doncaster puts on a brave smiley

face but hopefully there's a battle behind the scenes.

Its almost to the point where I cant believe what some of the chairman are saying now as well.

I take it they are mostly holding out for the top job at the big house !

I would add not one club chairman has come out and said they should not be allowed in

as a new co. Not f**king one of them.(hibs and celtic owners have played to their support.

but they would say if they were going to vote no would they not ?) Plenty

are saying 'yes we will vote them back in'.

Apart from Dunfermline said no. Turns out no vote for them though.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Johnston's quotes in the press this morning made me sick. A toadying weasel of a man.

Kind of sick of boycotts. But would everyone be ok with

1.) Not attended any ground that voted yes for newco

2.) Making sure and attend away game where the club voted no

I actually think this would make some difference. Hibs away support has not been the best as we have been total gash.

Honestly if a diddy club was brave enough to say NO it would be great to give them extra support.

However hearts/aberdeen/hibs do usually take a decent crowd to say fir park.

How much cash would Motherwell lose for a yes vote and all 3 said no fans will set foot in their ground ?

Ok we don't know who is thinking of saying No. But why don't on pie and bovril throughout the site list

all clubs that have for sure said yes.

Kilmarnock seems to be the first that have nailed down and said out loud they will vote Yes.

I like killie I like shiels but be clear the only thing they understand is money.

The clowns that run our game like Doncaster will only ignore us until they

have facts on how many £'s they could lose.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

From what I understand Stuart Milne has personally guaranteed Aberdeens debt with the bank. Milne would have to go bankrupt before there was an Aberdeen newco.

This is a subtle point on this whole new co business.

Tom Farmer

Stuart Milne

David Murray

Romanov

All got borrowing from the strength of there other business not the football club.

None of Aberdeen/Hearts/Rangers(until white took over)/Hibs are/were in suitable position

for a admin/new co to benefit the club at all. The storys of Hearts going into

Admin are just stupid the bank are the owners and main debtors why would they

do that to themselves.

None of these guys would get away with running away from the debt via Admin to a bank.

(one of them is the bank). What would it do to the above owners reputation by

new co-ing a football club. I would guess most of these guys have long standing

arrangements with banking and its in their interest to keep this good.

There is no question the bank would not let Murray sell till the debt was payed.

LLoyds tsb opinion of Murray would have gone up after the sale. An account

closed and a massive profit over the period for them.

It would be interesting how many banks have actually lost out on money owed to them from a Scottish club.

As far as I can see Motherwell and Dundee only really got out of admin because the main losers were the

primary investors who agreed to take pence in the pounds for soft loans.

Motherwell and Dundee the main losers were the owners.

The spin on this story from the Scottish media and Doncaster is incredible.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Neil Doncaster thinks a new co is the same as a CVA.

Neil Doncaster is the man charged with investigating Double contracts.

Sure to do a fine job when you look at his history of speaking absolute bollocks.

I am pretty sure anything this smug twat does he phones up sky to ask if its ok.

Is there any chance someone can start one of those petition things to get him

removed.

Neil Doncaster

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9338483.stm

"We've certainly had the indication that the plan on the table is more attractive to TV than the status-quo," Doncaster told BBC Radio Scotland.

Hi sky Neil here how many teams do you want in the league. Ten you say I will get right on it.

Neil Doncaster on the British cup idea.

'I certainly wouldn't rule it out at all,' he said.

'I think it would be a very exciting innovation. It would certainly bring a lot of money into the game, and a lot of interest into the game.

When is the british cup due to start Doncaster you idiot.

Neil Doncaster GTF you freaky looking twat.

[Heart of Midlothian 5 - 1 Hibernian]

Craig Thomson did hibs a favour today. His performance was terrible. Its a massive

talking point how terrible the ref was.

However Hearts are a much better team and we would have needed the ref to be a hibs season

ticket holder to give us any chance of winning that game.

Most people seem shocked by how terrible hibs players were to any neutrals out there

thats the way they play every week they are rubbish.

That Hearts team are simply miles better than we have. In fact every team in the league

is apart from Dunfermline.

Again though thanks Craig Thompson as you are the worst ref I have ever seen , hearts

would have won anyway but you at least gave us a slight excuse.

The atmosphere was amazing before kick off.

Alot of hibs fans think we must sign leigh griffiths and mcpake. I would not be bothered

if we dont. Griffiths today was static . I cant be bothered saying any more about

how bad this hibs team is.

Just to add Listening to super scoreboard its weird they are spot on talking about what's wrong

with hibs. Quote was ' all the loan players a very very poor and not good enough for hibernian'

Its true and I hope that Fenlon was only talking them up as he was trying to build up their confidence.

Although Jim Duffys comments feel like they came from some parallel universe where he isnt

one of the worst managers ever to grace the game.

Also Petrie has been in the media all week. Will we see the tache again before the AGM. He only

comments when he feels like it. The Club needs strong leadership now.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

"Open it up", yes... it says the Board will call together the clubs, hear what they have to say - presumably with an indicative poll of some kind - and it'll be dealt with by the Board.

Not necessarily, for those reasons I detailed in the post you replied to. It's worse than the Board deciding themselves, or the clubs deciding themselves.

You admit the clubs will decide though. So all anger and pressure if on the clubs not Doncaster.

Also once the new rule is put in its in the hands of the clubs.

Whatever way you look at each club will now have a vote and the pressure can applied to each club on how

they vote or how they will vote.

The clubs have decided on this and by the next meeting it will be taken out of the boards hands.

If the board decided on itself two clubs could vote against it and two people not associated with any club could vote yes.

I cant see any reason why this worse. If they vote before the next meeting they will still be voting.

I would imagine every club will now be asked by the press how they will vote.

Remember this is action taken by the clubs Doncaster was quite happy to have the power and seemed to

enjoy having it. In Doncaster's mind a new co is the same as CVA so thank f**k he does not have a vote is

what I say.

Every single phone in show on Scottish football keeps going on about the board having the vote

this is being removed at the soonest possible moment.

Do you not remember how delighted Tranyor/young and the rest were delighted when they could tell people that

it did not matter as the 'board will decide'

A newco was always going to voted in by the board now every club has a vote no matter what it makes it much more

interesting. For example Rod Petrie could claim he does not agree with the board decision by what could he do ?

Now that get out clause is gone.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

See I read this the complete opposite way around. It now leaves the door open for the clubs to hold an indicative vote... 7-5, 8-4, 9-3, whatever... then SPL Board votes to allow a NewCo "respecting the wishes of clubs" whilst simaltanesouly insulating themselves from criticism as "the men who saved Rangers". If application is made before 30th May.

If an application is made before 30th may the explicitly say they will open it up to all the clubs. Fans of every club

know this now. They should pressure them into revealing there vote before or after. We should

demand that every club reveals their vote.

As I said though they could if they wanted force a new co to be relegated and allow them back in.

Surely you must admit this is better then Doncaster and 3 clubs voting on this.

Doncaster would vote them back in without punishment tomorrow and he is not accountable to any fan base with season ticket renewals.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

This seems like good news to me.

However, an SPL spokesperson said the 11 member clubs present at Monday's meeting "unanimously called for the power to deal with any newco application to be moved from the board to the clubs".

"This requires 21 clear days' notice," added the spokesperson. "The clubs will therefore meet again on 30 May to consider a resolution designed to achieve this.

"In the event that an application for transfer of share to a newco is received before 30 May, then it can be dealt with by the SPL board.

"The SPL board have indicated that they would, in those circumstances, call together the clubs before any such decision was made.

So

- All the clubs will get a vote

- Even if the newco apply now all the clubs will vote

- The decision is taken out of Doncaster s hand

So It wont just be down to the SPL board it will be down to all the clubs. Ok we might not like what they decide however no

club and the SPL cannot shy away from it.

What I think they should do is

- Vote on if any newco now and in the future is allowed in and put this in the rules

- If the newcos are allowed then vote on punishments

Put these rules in there and then stick with them.

I would prefer if they combine with the SFL and say that newcos are allowed and that they are demoted X number of divisions.

If they could agree this then I think 2 divisions would be fair.

Once/of a newco returns to the SPL they lose % of there income for every year they spend in the SPL for X seasons.

So in Rangers case a newco would go to division 2. They would then lose say 50% of there income for

there first 3 season back in the SPL.

Again Doncaster has quite smugly for months said it would be the SPL board who decides well not any more.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Does anyone think one of the reasons the vote was delayed may be due to the current relegation battle ?

The clubs make up the SPL rules as they go. Hibs/Dunfermline position on this

could change. Why would hibs/Dunfermline vote till they know their position.

They may know this before the season ends and still have their SPL share and have a crucial advantage

of voting with their share and knowing their outcome.

They could suggest a rule such as

1. Any club that transfers its share to a new co is relegated at the end of the season in the place of the 12th club.

At that point they are given their SFA license and share and sent down as the relegated club. The

newly promoted club gets their SPL share and there is no relegation.

2. For the first 3 seasons if they return to the SPL they lose 50% of their SPL income

3. Any new co must repay every football debt before returning to SPL

They keep saying there is no rules to put them in the SFL well they could draft one and vote and that would be it.

They could also make an agreement with the SFL that a team is sent down 2 divisions or however many they

want.

[Heart of Midlothian 5 - 1 Hibernian]

I know Gala's talking shite he always does, but i wouldn't be surprised if a few of them tried it following this announcement.

I don't think there will be anyone in the wrong end. Corporate tickets for both clubs were available. Both clubs

gave fans the option to buy a season ticket next year and have good chance of a ticket. With so many

different ways to get one and so many options who would suddenly decide to go in the wrong end.

Hearts had there own hospitality two packages one at £120/£170. So rather than get that

these supposed mentalists will save them selves £100 and go in the wrong end.

Hibs will have a small public sale which will mean to people with purchase history with the club and

will prob involve a crazy queue.

These fans in the wrong end who dont own a season ticket and dont have the cash for hospitality

but they could never miss a game. Yes they dont go to game however for a cup final they will

make an exception and sit in the wrong end.

Every hibs fan I know who has not got a season ticket or a membership has found through

work/friends/family one of the £55 debenture tickets. I am sure hearts are the same.

What this means is that once both clubs 20k is gone I doubt there will be any more tickets.

What you will hear is where are these hearts and hibs fans at most home games. I think both

clubs have loads of fans that simply go to the odd game. These guys may never go

to a game these days and had a season ticket in the past.

Both hibs/hearts I think are the clubs in scotland with the most avenue for growth in there support

and the clamour for tickets for this one off game shows that. There is no way any other cup

final outside the old firm would have this demand for tickets.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Neil Doncaster said that new co's are very common place in England. Is

this true or did he make this up ? (to add to the list of things he

makes up to suit his agenda)

I wonder how many teams in the English top division have done this?

There is no doubt he is pushing for no punishment.

Rangers claim that everyone against them I think they have one friend in him at least.

Hibs/Dunfermline should propose that new co means relegation and get that written

in the rules.

Doncaster keeps saying there is no mechanism to relegate them well just get one

written in the rules and vote it through.

I kind of wonder if Hibs do get relegated if that it will be worse for Rangers cannot

see the hibs board not exploring every avenue morally correct or not to avoid it.

The SPL enquiry into rangers will be a joke if doncaster is involved.

Can I just add Doncaster GTF. The next survey should be a vote of no confidence in

this clown.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

This to me looks like what Rangers are doing (or some variation)

http://www.companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/options/cva-hive-down

Its pretty shocking and basically lets them take the assets of the company and everything they want for next to nothing.

Its basically a new co but rather than buying the assets at market rate to pay the creditors they make them safe

and force a CVA through or wind up the old company.

What it confusing is how the ad-mins are allowed to do this.

In no way is this a great deal for the creditors. The best deal for them would Rangers being wound up and

the assets sold at market rate to create a pot or a fair CVA offer.

Hopefully the SPL/SFA do not let them get away with this without extreme sanctions.

[Heart of Midlothian 5 - 1 Hibernian]

Am I completely missing something here or is this a shite bluff from Petrie?

'General sale highly unlikely.'

Let's assume some people stump up for a ST between now and the semi in order to guarantee a ticket. Let's also assume that not every season ticket holder is motivated by a second ticket and/or doesn't have a spare £400 on them in a recession.

I think it's highly unlikely that more than 15/16k will go in the ST priority stage. How the f**k would they shift 20k tickets with this system? Every season ticket holder renews, purchases 2 and 4 or 5,000 people sign up for ST in the next few weeks. Your maw Rod blatant shiting himself at the effects of a loss and trying to scare people into spending £450 on a cup final ticket type strategy IMO.

Unless I'm missing some detail here? Just incase I am, you renewing your season ticket all Akpo?

I think there may be a very small public sale.

8k with half seasons if everyone renues 16k

3k new season ticket holders 19k

club members/hiberenians/family of fans staff/players 1k = 20k

If you look at the above figures there is not going to be a large public sale.

All it might take is 3k new season ticket holders to make a public sale unlikely.

However I reckon the following

8k with half seasons if everyone renues 16k = prob 14k

3k new season ticket holders 19k = 17k

club members/hiberenians/family of fans staff/players 1k = 18k

So maybe 2k public sale at most.

[Heart of Midlothian 5 - 1 Hibernian]

Would like to avoid talking about the game as hearts have a much better team than us and will prob win.

(boring ticket rant below ignore if you not into that kind of thing)

I cant believe the panic from both sets of fans about tickets. Both teams will get at least 22k.

Hearts have said they will allocate theirs using loyalty points. This seems completely fair.

Hibs look likely to give priority to season ticket holders(this year and next and members).

How anyone can complain about that I don't know.

For instance in hibs case they have advertised on 3 occasions the membership which gave

you a free ticket to a game and worked out free. If you got one of these you will for sure

get a ticket to the final.

Considering both teams have fans queuing up on their forums to say they wont go to a

single game next year if a Rangers new co gets ins.

In simple terms getting a season ticket for hibs/hearts next year would mean you would get a ticket.

This would be mean going to the games so wont go down well.

Another example of the twisted logic is that some hibs/hearts will miss out on a ticket thus pissing

them off and they wont go to games any more. The same fans who coincidently don't go to games.

Many hibs fans have already stated that due to the rubbish offers they wont be back next year anyway

also hearts fans the same with their dynamic pricing.

I wont be back next year and if I don't get a final ticket I wont be back double and if we lose I wont

be back triple.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

No, no, no and for good measure: no.

To answer your numbered points specifically (first):

1. Yes, they will not be allowed into Europe. That will hurt them. Like it hurt them when they had recently performed a debt to equity bailout of £50m and had their arses handed to them by Kaunas. Any guesses as to what they did next?

2. For sure, they won't win the league in those two seasons and most likely beyond - Celtic have a very young team which will be given breathing space to gel further. So Renegers will get 2nd place prize money (see next point) as opposed to 1st.

3. 75% of what? £2m? That probably covers the amount they'll be able to save on interest payments and is about a quarter of the amount they'll save from not being beholden to Ticketus. In essence, they'll be about £6m better off than if they stay in administration.

With negligible debt and a license to 'do as you please, SPL pyoor needs you', they could go out and spend tens of millions of pounds this summer, assuming FIFA can't apply a transfer embargo on a newco (which they can't). I've posted in this thread before regarding the numbers Renegers have received from external sources over the years - with a clean slate, what would there be to stop someone doing it again?

Their lowest point ever would not and should not ever be considered them taking a slight slap on the wrists, it should* be them liquidated and applying, not for the SPL, but for a space in the SFL, like any other club would.

*based on their appeal to the FTTT failing.

My point is that if they go into the 3rd division they will not be that worse off. I dont really care what happens to them. I do know that Hibs debt is rising again and Aberdeen

are in a really bad way. Say for instance they get put in the 3rd division. Are fans of Dunfermline/Hearts/Aberdeen/Hibs(four clubs who really need the money ) going

to go to more games and help them out. No there is no chance of that.

Again sporting integrity where was this when there has been clubs in the SPL who have went into admin and out again without losing a point. Teams prevented from

being promoted as there stadium is not up to scratch.

The SPL teams look out for one another by restricting membership. Only recently Hibs fans were told by there own chairmen the way forward is a ten team SPL.

If people want a level playing field in the SPL they should concentrate on supporting their local team. Only by having bigger club throughout scotland with larger fan

basis can we start talking about a level playing field.

Do you think that Celtic want the 11-1 voting rule changed ?

Dundee have went into admin 3 times. They have never done a newco are they better or worse than rangers ?

However if rangers are found guilty of the double contracts (cant see how they cannot be ) then they should be relegated for that.

I want rangers to be punished as harshly as possible btw. However in 3 years time newco or not they will be better than

everyone else in the SPL because in scotland everyone supports celtic/rangers thats just sadly the way it is.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

I don't think a newco Rangers should be let straight back in. However if they do get liquidated it will be a complete

disaster for them. There is no doubt that none of the people bidding for rangers want a new co. Consider this

(assuming the new rules are brought in)

1.) At least 3 years of without European football (due to uefa rules)

2.) 2 years of -10 points ( at least two years they cant win the league)

3.) 75% loss of SPL revenue for 3 years

I just cannot see rangers getting decent crowds under these restrictions.

Although these rules are new a point to consider is that it what any club that does a new co will face in the SPL

going forward.

Making them play in the 3rd division in some ways would benefit them as they would have something to play

for and could play a young team and romp through the leagues.

European revenue is vital to Rangers/Celtic. Most years the minimum they should get is europa league.

There is no way Rangers get it easy with the newco route and I would imagine all the bidders are trying

like feck to somehow get a CVA together.

A newco rangers would be looking at 3 years of low crowds and not much to play for. Fans talking

of not going to games when rangers would be at there lowest point ever does not make much sense to me.

Another point to mention is that Hibs/Motherwell/Celtic all entered admin without any penalties. The fans

of these clubs who say 'I will never go back if a newco is admitted' are really taking the piss. The fact

is that for some reason the SPL has never had rules on newco. Hibs got out of trouble by going into admin on purpose what they did is no more or less moral than what rangers do. You either form a new co,agree a CVA or you cease to exist. That is what happens once you enter admin. The SPL putting newco rules up now is a good thing.

A positive from this from what I see is that the 11-1 voting may still change.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

"Morning papers: 'All three of the remaining bidders for Rangers have refused to rule out liquidating the club should they be successful'"

Pleasing

Its around 42 days till the season ends.

Once a CVA is proposed.

- 14 days notice for creditors meeting

- a period of time where they vote and pass a CVA

- 28 days later admin ends

Its not possible for Rangers to be out of admin by season end.

Also the big tax case.

I wonder if Rangers can start selling players now to raise funds to keep the club going ?

The player would not be able to play for the new club until the start of the next season but this could be an option for them.

The longer this goes on the closer they get to pre season where clubs survive on season ticket money. However they

cant sell any season tickets till they are out of this mess.

Scottish journalists don't have a clue as they seemed to reckon recently that it was looking

up for rangers.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Let me Sum up the opinion of the Scottish media

- Rangers no matter what rules they have broken,

- whether they have two contracts(is this even in doubt the normal contract + the implied EBT contract)

- If they form a newco

Rangers must remain in the the SPL whatever they have done !!

This whole discussion is pointless as whatever they have found guilty of they must remain in the SPL !

We must have four games between Rangers and Celtic we simply must.

We cant change the league format as we will lose 20 million(well Celtic will accept a 14 team league

if they can schedule all the fixture and format to their liking)

A fairer split of TV money is acceptable only if/when this is achieved by accepting rangers back into the league.

Every fan of every team out with the old firm does not understand that celtic and rangers fans by attending their

ground keep their team going.

Rangers/celtic cant get into the english league that simply wont happen the media have worked this out.(however

the Atlantic league is not off the menu)

Rangers/Celtic can be fined and banned in europe for singing offensive songs. The SPL cannot do anything

about this or the SFA they just cant.

[Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!]

Rangers need to make cuts of £1,000,000 a month to keep going.

That is £250,000 a week in wages.

Lets say Broadfoot is on some kind of scary wage such as 8k a week.

They need to get rid of 31 Broadfoots.

Should be no problem for D&P what the panic.

It would be interesting if someone could come up with a way of them making £1,000,000 of

cuts without cutting all high earners and even the players who have sell on value.

Another point is the staff would then become creditors and have to agree to a CVA like

Billy Dodds did not.

This is a point ignored by many people in the press. If the average length of the staff contracts

is say 2 years.

Then rangers would have £24 millions worth of new creditors.

Which all adds up to a CVA not being possible.