makepeace
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Posts posted by makepeace
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But But But i thought you all just wanted fair and proper punishment and letting the whole world know that sporting integrity is still alive and well in Scotland.
Now you are saying 'f**k Integrity let's just kill the b*****ds'.
Make your mind up Diddies
f**k INTEGRITY LETS JUST KILL THE b*****dS
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Well said. Here's a way to assess how many fans you have: ask yourself what your average crowd would be if you finished, say, 4th in the league, and admission was fixed at £20. What would Rangers have? 30,000 at a push? Now do the same for all the other teams in Scotland as a whole -- the whole of senior football, and juniors too. Rangers would have nearer 15% I think and I'm not joking.
The problem is the media report so much on the Old Firm because they are winning all the time, and so the non-OF clubs don't feature in the media much, and therefore the non-OF fans don't bother with the radio phone-ins, and so the thick, sycophantic element amongst the media - of which Chick is chief offender - start to genuinely believe there is no life beyond the Old Firm, and so the viscous cycle continues.
It staggers me that Chick is allowed to fabricate stats like this out of thin air and no one on air challenges him. He lives in the west of Scotland for a start, he has a skewed view of football fans. I sometimes wish there was a websites with various myth-busting articles on it that we can point Chick et al to when they spout such utter shameless garbage. If Chick said in 1985 that 40% of the population were Rangers fans you'd laugh in his face. He's a dangerous, lying idiot.
it all depends on how you define fan. if it is in terms of someone who goes to the football match then that argument makes sense. if its in terms of a more loose sense of someone who claims affinity to support a club, watches them on the tv, buys their merchandise etc, then i think one could probably justify that 40% ish figure easier....
what is interseting though if one goes by that definition is that celtic and rangers market has been penetrated a helluva lot over the years by the priemiership teams bara etc. the biggest drop in celtics income cited in last annual report was their merchandising sales - a huge proporition of their overall income. now imagine how much more that is goign to dwindle in teh context of your avergage punter no longer having teh rangers 'other' to define themselves by? especially in the context of havign high wages tied to long contracts
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The 40% is meaningless drivel; there isn't a club in Scotland outside of the OF who reach anywhere near their potential simply because of the OF - fans don't turn out for The Rest because no one is interested in the chase for 3rd. Find a way to change that and you might see 17,000 - 18,000 at Pittodrie, Tynecastle, Easter Road or 10,000 - 12,000 at Tannadice, Fir Park, Rugby Park for the odd game not involving the OF (and not involving the local rival).
The single reason that we don't see these grounds full(ish) now and again is solely because there are never the Big Games to bring out the occasional, lapsed or glory hunting fans and that is due entirely to the OF hegemony.
But these teams tend to get big cup games fairly regularly and to be fair they do get the numbers for those occasions.
The way i think it could go is like this - in the vein of for every 5 pounds celtic had to spend, rangers spent 10... probably during that period the nearest to celtic were paying £1.50. Yet despite the disparity between rangers of celtic of 2:1 celtic got a fair distrubution of titles and what not, but the only thing that caused them to spend that level of 5 was in order to keep pegged to rangers. With rangers gone, that context of arms race driving up the wages of scottish football will disapate and celtic will not need to spend taht much to be just that wee bit better than the rest... Also, given the fact that the rivarly will cease to be, celtic crowds will dwindle, probably still dwarfiing the rest mind you.
Nevertheless, this gives the other clubs opportunity to compete with celtic, they only need to win one or two trophies here and there, and/or get into european football which doesn't require even finishing first.
another factor leading to more competativness could be that there is chance for the diddy clubs to change the balance of power in the football setup and could maybe from that push for a greater share of teh resources of whatever comes up in terms of tv money.
who knows though, but interesting times ahead..
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Chic Young said many times that "Rangers fans are a majority of Scottish football fans" and by association, if you kill Rangers you will kill Scottish football 'cos those same fans "won't turn up to see St. Mirren or Clydebank".
I (and hopefully the fans of every other Scottish senior club) disagree.
*edited for pishy spelling
I think to be fair 40% wouldnt be that off an assesment for percentafe of populace who are into football who lean to rangers. id say probably for celtic likewise.
I also think though once rangers go bust then the market for new loyalties to be created will become far more open and therefore there will for the first time since the 80s be something to play for all the other teams in existence.
for me the final nail in the coffin for attending football was the henry mcleish report which was all about further accentuating all that is wrong in scottish football. Ive maybe been to 2 or 3 games in the last two seasons or so.
In the event of rangers going proper bust then i would seriously consider attending regularly again because there would be some point to football again.. Im sure lots of people who no longer go to the football feel similiar and are watching this unfolding of events as much as i am.
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Jolly good of the BBC to eventually get round to releasing information of law breaking. No rush. Just take your time and whenever suits you put it out there. Better get the important stuff like Eastenders, Escape to the Country and Graham Norton out their first.
come on now... its only scottish football we are talking about here
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As much as no8 was being a dick there, he's actually quite right. Nothing we say or do is going to make a blind bit of difference. Even our own Chairmen don't give a f**k what their own fans think.
agreed
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heres a question.
if in the event that the rumours are true, that doncaster has been sitting on the judgement of the 2 contracts thing, and that the bbc documentary is going to force them to show their hand on wednesday, does this not compromise doncasters position to be part of an organisation that is for the governance of football and will consequently have some kind of standards to be accountable to?
if that is the case, then will it be possible to put pressure on doncaster to resign??
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you don't get it do you? You are a member of the OF contingent. Consequently, you have nothing in common with teams that have real adversity to deal with. The idea that celtic face massive obsticles by all the forces that scottish society can muster together in the attainment of their rightful destiny is a clever marketing ploy designed for gullible people like yourself. Please refrain from pretending to know what it is like for those of us who support teams in the context of a stiching up of scottish football.
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It seems that way to me.
I seriously think we there is not going to be a Rangers in Scottish football next season.
One down, one to go.
when celtic go to the wall after all this will there be ex rangers fans on this thread showing diddy solidarity with the diddys as celtic fans are now?
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Nice generalisation there :/
a laudable point. so now in that vein can you give us a nuanced account of the going ons in the rangers support base without recourse to negative essentialist stereotypes of loyalism/bigoty etc?
thank you
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It's also coincided with more green bigots joining in.
its the reframing themselves as "fellow diddy team fans" by celtic fans that particularly irks me...
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whats odious creep and leggat got to say about all these rumours?
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I had to leave this glorious threads for a couple of days there to sit exams and get drunk and for the first time it's reached the stage that I can't catch up. So has anything happened since the SFA's wonderful announcement on Wednesday except for a lot of trolling? Are they any nearer to death than they were on Wednesday night?
i missed this thread for approximately a week for the same reason and now im passed the point of being able to read it all. kinda annoyed cause i pretty much managed to read it all the way from page 1 to 1000
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Am I right in thinking the tv deal means the only live games to be aired from Ibrox and parkhead must be old firm games?
So whilst our nations journalists pour scorn on the diddy's half empty ground. They can never pass judgement on a half empty Ibrox or parkhead. As with the tv deal, that will not happen.
who knows??
but isnt allan cowan just FUCKING AWESOME?
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fair enough. in order to fit in ill say this: ARRRGHHH WERE FUCKED!!!!
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ive not been on this for a couple of days. The last time i was on the consensus was that rangers are fucked, greene is an asset stripper. but now it seems the consensus is that rangers are gonna get away with all this. whats changed??
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I think you're either being a tad naive or adopting a head in the sand approach to this. Been a while since I've been to either Old Firm grounds but have seen BNP handing put stuff at Ibrox and Irish Republican groups selling pamphlets outside Celtic Park. Funnily enough I've never seen either of these being sold outside Hampden at Scotland games where they frequently get 50k+ crowds. I think the words that might help in this instance are 'target' and 'market'
that said, if rangers fans constitute say 1/3 of the population you are likely to get a cross section of a variety of political opinions going on. i dare say there are many people who would call themselves socialists that are rangers supporters like any club. indeed, some few hundred pages ago, there was a rangers fan getting all romantic about some scottish woman that fought against franco in the spanish civil war.
but i think the crucial thing to analyse when making a broad judgement about where a supports sentiments lies is in the type of political organising that centres around a football support. and within rangers the only organised politically leaning stuff seems to be around unionism, loyalism, and a little bit of british nationalism.
in a simliar way to how i think diddy clubs will be culpable if they let a newco back in, one could accuse the rangers support in general of being complicit in allowing that kind of organisation to evolve. at the very least its a case of evil arising when good men do nothing, or at the most, tacit acceptance of religious bigotry and far right ideology.
In the 80s, when facsists tried to target football fans, there were a number of clubs that became associated with an acceptance of that kinda thing. this also promoted football fan organisations opposed to fascism that tried to confront the spread of such a discourse within their ranks. what is interesting is that teams such as millwall, and chelsea even had their own anti fascist organisations, although i dont think they were that successfull! nevertheless, i have never heard of any organised anti fascist or anti loyalist, or anti sectarian even activity by the rangers support organised at a grassroots level. Indeed the very names of their 'ultras' organisations eg union bears, and blue order at least supports the tacit acceptance thesis advanced earlier in this post...
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Were they celtic's dentist and he wanted to construct an elaborate theory about some sort of dental mafia? Can't imagine him caring much for diddy players' teeth. What an odd chap he is. Greeny 'cause it made me chuckle at his madness and 'cause I'm a woman of my word
cheers!
celtic were one of the teams actually. and hearts. what was interesting was i heard about hearts not paying their bills for their players dental plans long before there were news reports about defaults and players wages coming out of tyncastle a couple of years back. wonder if leggat was the first to bring out that news haha.. apparently hes got a very creepy voice too..
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being devils advocate, if a football club has say 1/3 of the total scottish football support, thats quite a market to justify putting out right wing literature (or left wing) out there.
maybe not as worth it outside a smaller ground. Also, as far as i am aware, the sdl are pretty much a football casual mob that use right wing anti muslim rhetoric in order to find new forums where they can have a punch up because football is so heavily policed that theres no longer a space for that kinda thing within football. So i dont think they really have concrete enough political aims to motivate members to write, print, and disseminate literature.
However, organisations like the BNP who do have definite political aims will of course print literature. Ok being less charitable towards the rangers fans now, i do think there is a bit of a market for some elements of far right discourse to prevail, not least because of the links between loyalism and far right stuff - not to mention both types of groups are very into the union flag and all that...
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haha ok.
Someone i know used to work for a dental insurance firm which dealt with the dental plans of a number of football clubs including some spl clubs. i hasten to add - rangers were not one of them. anyhow the bold leggat used to call into said persons manager by phoning the main line asking for him. when my friend passed on phone to their boss, the boss would hang up and go outside and leggat would call him on his mobile.
THAT is just how rigourous an investigative journalist leggat was - he wanted to know ALL THE GOING ONS in scottish football clubs right down to THE PLAYERS TEETH!!
probably not worth a greeny to be fair...
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i found an interesting fact about david leggat yesterday. but ill save it for the thread tommorrow during the day when theres more traffic.
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If Rangers somehow, even after all this, get voted into the SPL by Doncaster & Co, then I'm liking the sound of this total boycott of Rangers games. Still buy our STs, go to every home game - but under no circumstances go to the home games against Newco Rangers, and obviously the away games against them too. Our clubs would still get our ST money, and we'd get to go to see our team - but when that mob come to town, they are talking about boycotting us, so as others have said above - we don't turn up either. Sky usually show just about every away game that mob play - let them be played in almost empty stadiums.
Sounds a good 'compromise protest' to me, and doesn't do our clubs out of ST revenue. I know there's an argument that you want to be there to see your team beat Rangers - but it wouldn't be Rangers, it would some debt-dodging, spiv-funded, scheming cheating Newco shit.
Gets my vote. However, as others have said too, the cnuts might go tits-up anyway, and it won't be an issue. Here's hoping.
see the problem with this idea is that surely the whole point of diddy fans threatening their respective clubs is to put pressure on them not to capitulate in letting the newco in. I would think at the very least that clubs who vote in favour of letting newco in, if in the event that the sufficient number of votes go through to get newco in, should be boycotted by those who do not wish to see their club tarnished with the cheating nature of scottish level football.
i understand why people may feel that they do not want to punish their clubs, but doesn't the basic problem of scottish football arise out of bad decisions by ALL the clubs to get to where we are now.
If a line can't be drawn in the sand with this one, then we deserve what we get imo
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thanks no8 and the others who provided information on the political landscape of rangers. i must say i find the factionalism rather suprising given that you would think the Trust democratic one person one vote structure, would ensure that conflicting opinions could be resolved within the structures of the organisation rather than all out war between different groups.
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When this is all over you will all be too busy in the 'RANGERS CHEATING b*****dS' thread where you will be consoling each other after Rangers have walked away from all this through a CVA. Telling each other how you are never ever ever going to set foot in another Scottish Football ground. Arguing about who has the worst Chairman...How Scottish football is fucked etc etc etc.
Now that is a thread i dream about at night
thats probably how it will turn out.
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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
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ive always been pro pyramid football. i still am. but i think if a newco rangers were to get formed taht commanded the authority in the minds of a significant enough of rangers fans as being the legit one then i think there would be a pyramid system put in tommorrow. that would not be cool.
the best case scenario will be for 3 or 4 post rangers clubs to join the juniors which would divide the big hoose and put far less pressure to reform the league system.
once they languish in their for long enough, and the appropriate cultural shifts take place in our society then i think the rangers meme will be put to bed. then we can have a pyramid system, in a scottish league with no old firm anymore. it will be the football new jerusalem.