makepeace
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Posts posted by makepeace
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Well I doubt if he'd be alone and I don't know what role he might play. We'll see what happens.
it would be a good populist move to get the fans behind a bid if souness involved in a consortium. ironic a bit since it was his buying of boumsong that kicked off the hmrc investigation... did he not have shares in rangers back in the day??
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its been oft repeated that OF crowds are getting that meaningless for diddy teams that the cost of the extra policing is equivalent to the revenue brought in. dont know how true that is, and if there is any basis to that claim, someone please post it ..
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haha, well ive just had a few beers tonight...
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hey im not denying that the most lucrative league in the world is going to have some serious disparity vis a vis the rest of english football. all im saying is that in england there is at least the environment for supporters to have some agency to deal with a bad hand being dealt to them. This thread is as good as it gets for us this side of the border.
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I found this regarding fans in other leagues and scotland without the top two.
it would involve doing sums, something that counts me out (see what i did there), but ive noticed on these stats that there is also the countries population with the average attendance vis a vis ours with non of average attendance. it would be interesting if someone could do the calculation to see per capita stats and see where scotland is situated against these other nations in ranking in terms of percapita figures
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this is my ideal scenario:
they go bust and for whatever reason cant go back into the spl.
they make application to sfl as new co to get into div three
they do not get allowed in on basis of being a new company and not having three years of account (THE RETURN OF THE BLAZERS!!!!)
they make application to join juniors.
they spend the next 10 years or so fighting it out with third lanark, clydebank, spartans, and other ambitious outfits to get into senior football
they loose.
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I'm out of greenies or you'd get one for that.
I can relate to a lot of what you say. Indeed, a few years ago as we were leaving Love Street, I was involved in a project led by a high profile poster on this very thread, to put a book together marking the last season and a half at our spiritual home. This was very much a labour of love, but didn't feel like a labour at all. It just seemed like the right thing to do, and we created something we're pretty proud of, TBH. It pains me, then, to think that I've lost much of that drive and passion. A great deal of that is attributable to the current state of the game in Scotland in general, and not any specific circumstances at St Mirren.
We need radical change. Nothing can be clearer, IMO. The chance has now presented itself, and I hope the diddies grasp it and force that change through. I don't think they will ever get a better chance, and this is what I told our chairman, Stewart Gilmour, during a 'phone call a few weeks ago. If the status quo remains in place, then I think my scunner level will have maxed out, and I'll be finished with senior football altogether. Fingers crossed it won't come to that.
totally, at risk of being cliched and using football metaphors to describe the current situation, its like as if there is an open goal opportunity in the last minute to win the proverbial cup, but the player - who is not accustomed to being at the pivotal moment in a cup final - is himming and hawing about what to do. will he scuff it, will he wait too long, or will he just tap it in.
i think the drive and passion is retrievable, the fact that the latter half of this semester has been fucked for me on account of this thread instead of studying shows how much latent passion is still in there for me haha
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what this situation has also exposed is
1) the lack of easily retrievable information that would be relevent to any debate (in this case crowd figure stats)
2) the lack of a vehical for fans to articulate their collective interests - we do not have a scottish ecquivalent of the football supporters federation
the consequence of both is that the best we can hope for is an epic thread whilst we collectivly go through the rollercoaster of chance hoping that rangers get proper fucked but realising that we have no power to influence the outcome one way or another...
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Count me in.
I've become increasingly disenchanted with the game over the last few years, and have been hoping beyond reasonable expectation that radical change might occur that would, in turn, reignite my passion.
Getting shot of one of half of the OF would be very encouraging start, even if only for a few seasons, in order that the balance of power might shift a little.
In any event, I've enjoyed this thread immensely, and it is good to know that there are a few kindred spirits out there
Group hug?
No?
Bloody sod ye, then.
haha
I have only been to see my team maybe 3 or 4 times in the past 2 seasons. Before that i was a regular goer who got involved in all sorts of fan sorta stuff. I also did a lot of stuff with my team as a community worker that got us exposed to people that had never heard of ptfc. One of the particularly noteworthy thing i learned during that time was that there were not only young people from a BME background who had never heard of ptfc which you might expect, but that white working class young people from the southside of glasgow had never heard of partick thistle... anyways going on a tangent but suffice to say i had a fair bit of energies around being a fan... however, it was the proximity to my club, but more the greater realisation of the shitness of scottish football that made me throw the towel in in terms of the emotional involvement i put into that stuff. which led to where i am at now.
it would take a pretty monumentus change to get me back on board, and i can only speak for myself, i dont know what motivates other ex die hards, but for me personally if rangers were to be severly weakened preferably destroed allowing the potential for a redrawing of the power differentials, then im in..
Going down to see fcum and afc wimbledon has shown me, whaht is possible if you get fans on board, but unfortunately something like that can only really thrive in a better environement as it is in england. Maybe just maybe we have the opportunity to change the environment here, but equally also and probably more likely if rangers get in scot free then things are well and truly fucked and there is no way back..
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this is an interesting discussion btw re what the actual figures are regarding attendance with or without the old firm vis a vis a number of nations. without going into the dangerous territory of making a call to action on behalf of diddy team fans, i do think it would be good if all the facts regarding the above matter and other relevent matters were situated in a website where they could be easily retrieved - so as to get the word around as it were.
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I don't think a meaningful number of people are going to do that, not on a consistent fortnightly (and therefore statistically significant) basis.
I think people have several dozen things higher-up the list of what makes them attend or not attend games... and spend or not spend their £20-odd quids... than envisaging themselves within, or caring about, some intangible protest movement v tabloid hacks...
Clubs staying with Celtic would boost those clubs crowds.
Likes of Aberdeen + Hibs improving would boost those clubs crowds.
Simple non-presence of Rangers wouldn't, IMO.
HJ - I think there will be some people who were once committed football fans in terms of going to the matches regularly but gave up because of general apathy towards scottish football may return if there is seen to be some scope for reforming scottish football. an event like the OF duopoly being severly damaged might be enough for that to happen. nevertheless, i dont think people who are of that catogory are a huge amount of people.
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the debating chamber section on rangers media is full of gem quotes like this - discussing that anders breivik dude lol
A very powerful Ideology. Just out of curiosity, have you read his book? Radicalised seems to be it for me. It's like he brainwashed himself (pretty common with very intellectual people). But I used to say there was a fine line between insanity and ingenious because I had a friend that was super intelligent and then ended up in Dykebar Hospital with Schizophrenia.So does brainwashing yourself mean your insane?
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rangers media is working
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No priority just their percentage of the money due compared to others, but when HMRC realise that the pot is emptying and their cut is diminishing they will wind the company up and stop it trading effectively freezing all assets and finances at that point.
This will be coming soon as it is aparent that the club cannot trade its way legally out of its debt
wonder what will come first, them being liquidated or this thread reaching 1000 pages...?
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Rumour is the new bidders are Joe Lewis, Daniel Levy and the ENIC group. They plan to run Rangers as a feeder club for Spurs reserves.
:rolleyes:wasnt it established after bates owned the jags and chelsea that one cannot own two football clubs?
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not really a plan going together...
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nearly 1.5 million views
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i also think bill millar should wear a shirt and tie.
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Another thread needed for another day... IF Rangers aren't in the SPL, then 'negative' talk of boycotts and chucking it from us diddy fans must stop. We should put our energies towards contacting our clubs to come up with ideas to put more bums on seats. Engage with the local community, appeal to lapsed fans, come up with ideas - and visit each others grounds as visiting fans. Get together if we can through supporter groups and bash our heads together to prove that we will not die without one of the OF visiting fan numbers gone...
IF they implode!
i would seriously consider going back to the football under those circumstances
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Why?????????????
maybe putting off the decision to see how many season tickets they can sell to gauge whether peeps are serious about not going back in the event of a newco?
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Long time lurker, first post. I live in the US and as much as I ish it were otherwise there won't be any pressure on this side of the Atlantic against Miller's bid. Irish America pressure groups have been in decline for decades and are riven by factionalism. When they do act it tends to be on issues like immigration reform (again a pressing issue) or easily graspable media issues like a negative portrayal in a film or TV show. If Miller was in a retail business that could be easily boycotted it might be a different story, but no tow company operator is going to let a far away soccer team influence a major business decision like buying a truck. As for general far right nastiness, anti-Catholic prejudice has declined so steeply in the US that most people have a very hard time taking it seriously when there are bigger home grown divisions. The ADL really won't care.
The real question for me is whether Miller has any idea of what a rotten pup he is buying. Having spent many years in soccer pubs explaining my support of Celtic and Scottish football to Americans who are overwhelmingly fixated on the EPL, Mexican teams and a handful of global giants like Barcelona I can attest to how difficult it is to explain the nuances of the old firm to people who come from a sporting culture where nothing similar has ever really existed. US sporting affiliations are overwhelmingly local or based on personal history (where you went to University). There aren't political affiliations tied to teams like in Italy and Germany, and while some teams have been more popular with minorities because of groundbreaking players that changes when the players change (e.g. Boston in the NBA was for a time viewed as a "white" team, but that ended quickly). I have a very hard time believing that Miller grasps the nature of the peepul and how toxic the brand is throughout the UK. I'm fairly sure if Miller read a stack of Rangers Media posts he wouldn't understand what separates that cesspool from, say, an particularly active forum involving QPR. You need some background to get the "tarrier" references and the crab flute thing.
On the plus side, if Miller thinks there is an untapped market for Rangers in the US he is delusional. The SPL only got on cable here this season and the EPL has been making converts at a very rapid clip. Watching the dregs that will be left after off-season departures isn't a compelling sporting case when you can in good conscience pick ManU or Barca to support, and unlike Celtic there isn't a large pool of people with a potential sentimental attachment to the idea of the club. Most Scots came to the US a very, very long time ago and to the extent thy think of their Scottish roots at all they think of glens, bagpipes and Braveheart not Govan, flute bands and Knox. In my experience the type of evangelical Christian who might buy ino certain aspects of Rangers....err...appeal loathe soccer almost as a point of pride. Celtics appeal in the US is limited compared to the EPL, but Rangers is nonexistent.
I think Miller is probably a smart businessman and is planning to run the club with ruthless fiscal discipline, sanctions or no sanctions. I just don't think he realizes the backlash that will follow.
Sorry for the long first post, but figured I'd add a perspective from this side of th Atlantic since the issue was raised.
thanks for that post. good to see things from accross the pond perspective.
remember going into an irish pub in new york with a couple of friends, and about an hour into us being there the pub filled up with ice hockey fans: the new york rangers. To see so many 'rangers' fans in what would be culturally here a 'celtic' pub was surreal haha
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But its been like that for over a century. The Old Firm have dominated Scottish football for over 100 years. Both clubs have exploited sectarianism to gain an advantage on the pitch. Rangers have spent money they don't have. Celtic used intimidation to gain refereeing decisions in their favour. Its a never ending story.
The ideal solution would be for the non Old Firm clubs to resign and start a new league.
They can't because too may are in big debt and fear that a non Old Firm set up would see the banks calling in the debts.
The sole death of Rangers does not help because Celtic will remain. In such a set up all that happens is the non Old Firm clubs will lose TV money.
The best solution is to allow newco Rangers in with no sanctions, thus preserving TV money. They can then get a greater share of the TV money and f**k Celtic at the same time.
Its the best solution out of a bad bunch.
the best solution would be for fans to walk away from their corrupt clubs and start afc versions of them. and put applications into the northern regional leagues of the fa, and walk away from the provincial cesspit that is scottish football. its fcked from top to bottom
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giving money to the juniors is still engaging with scottish football set up. what about instead we dissaffected football supporters start a football team based in scotland playing at the bottom of the english pyramid in the unibond north league or summit. we could call ourselves 'diddy utd'??
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:rolleyes:
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
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well the thing that would make me skeptical about that claim would be that surely logically the amount of police required would be proportionate to the level of crowd. so surely there would be a guarunteed profit percentage regardless of how big or small the away crowd would be.
as for your second point. it would be great if there was enough information in circulation for us to be able to build a picture of how much revenue is in circulation in scottish football and from what origin such revenue streams come from. it does seem that in the absense of such information it is very hard to come by quantifiable estimates with some evidence behind it, and the best we can do when we discuss any scenario, is to advance competing claims of conjecture...