stu2910

Would be interesting to know if there's actually any relevance in being Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum. If we can be Bronze in the top flight it's clearly not that important. I guess stadium grades will maybe have an impact on those that are chosen for cup neutral venues, Scotland youths etc. Can't see how the rest would have any actual impact though other than a pat on the back. On a side note, it's an absolute joke what has happened with the pyramid play off. IMO, under no circumstances should a club ever be refused promotion on any of these criteria, especially when there are clubs at the level they are trying to reach and even the one higher than that that have the same level of award. I know it says they were given a chance to apply for a grace period, but that should just be in place regardless. The current farce just makes a mockery of the whole system. Same goes for the next level down as I see that the Midland league that is full of Dundee and Angus clubs, which feeds into the Highland League playoff has never actually managed to produce a champion that is allowed to compete in the playoff. I appreciate there are probably a fair few of the clubs that look at away trips to Wick and decide they're better staying put, but when you've no idea what teams are genuinely in line for promotion it's hard to keep an interest.

Is there anything that explains what’s required for each tier? Youth, legal and ground are reasonably self explanatory, but first team?! Also what the relevance is when RC passed them all but were refused.

That's a bit out of nowhere. So essentially this would mean that the operation of the club and all first team activities would generally move to the stadium, while youths and girls would use riverside, with the community able to use both. Would suggest no long term future for Gardyne unless I'm missing something. Though reading it again it suggests that we are unlikely to build training facilities at the stadium and at riverside...so seems weird to be in the planning stages of both side by side unless we are basically hedging our bets in case one is rejected.

That would feel better. As a 31 year old, the concept of being so positive about both Dundee and Scotland makes me feel queasy.

You're up against Dundee, one of us has to be successful however bizarre that seems... Watch as we pip you to 5th and then get denied a UEFA license for the pitch or something.

Would love for that to happen but I'd imagine they'd still rather send him to a bigger club down south than back here to play, in all likelihood, 2 European matches. Hopefully even if he's not fit he gets a chance to come back for the Killie game to say bye. It's something that we never managed to do with Gowser and potentially Kerr by the look of it - whatever people's thoughts on those 2 they at least earned that. On Beck though, outside the mental era of the early 2000s, have we ever had a player make such an impact in so few games?

Spending choices will be influenced by promotion, but I only mentioned promotion in the sense that we would all try to “sell” our clubs to people that don’t go to games. I think we should maybe leave this one here before we derail this thread which is about journalism apparently.

So we should just not try to grow the league because people can spend their money how they like? Do you work for the SFA? Surely the whole point of advertising is encouraging people to spend their money differently.

I knew it had been a bit skewed but that’s ridiculous. Even if it’s replaced with an average game against, say, Hibs, we are looking at easily 4000 less tickets sold. Even if we’d only had 2 extra derbies to bring it up to 4 and 5, that’s potentially £150k-£200k in lost revenue. Imagine what that could pay for, oh yeh, a fine.

Deserving is always a dangerous word to use, but yes, Scottish clubs need the money more than English ones in general. Scottish table tennis needs the money more than Scottish football. I need the money more than Scottish table tennis. Someone using a food bank needs the money more than me. Given the discussion was about reallocating money already being spent on football, on a football forum, I’m not sure bringing anything else in to it was overly relevant.

Not even sure what point you’re trying to make with that, but yeh we probably should. Or literally anything that isn’t just chucking at some of the biggest business in the world that wouldn’t miss it.

It’s not taking a moral high ground. It’s questioning how we can encourage others to consider why they put so much time and money into a sport in a different country when they could have much more impact with that input on their own doorstep.

I’d love to be proven wrong but I just don’t see Sharp or Robertson having any future here. Robertson looks great and has good technique but influences the game very little. He would have ripped up league 1 in that Falkirk team. I don’t think randomly bringing him in for the toughest games makes a lot of sense. Sharp maybe can reach the level required but he’s never going to get a chance to do that here. Both need a full season of being regular starters at Championship level really, but that division is so cut throat at both ends that finding someone that will give them that chance is a bit challenging. The likes of Airdrie are maybe a decent bet.

Overlooking the derbies drives me insane. The Edinburgh Derby is absolutely the 2nd biggest game in the country and should be given that profile. Even if you accept that Aberdeen v Rangers etc has appeal, the Dundee Derby has got to be in our top 5 biggest matches, certainly in terms of spectacle if not always quality - regularly a full house and the 0-0 draw we had last season ended a run of 28 matches without one. The idea that these games are ever overlooked is just mindblowing. They are among our very few opportunities to show the best of our game without 2 clubs. Imagine the heads gone down south if the Manchester Derby wasn't on TV.

That's all fair. I think to try to bring this to an end will we try to agree on something: Scottish football is marketed terribly, particularly with the focus on 2 clubs, but is also screwed over by being one of only 3 national football associations who's national broadcaster is also the national broadcaster for a much bigger league.

I'm not disputing that someone living in Stockport will be interested in Stockport, that's not the point. In the last few posts you've said that people in Scotland will be interested in Stockport v Tranmere but then go on to question why someone in England would watch Partick v Ayr. Other than, oh I don't know, massively increased media attention, what does the English game have that's so interesting? To get back to the original point, why is this considered interesting enough to show across the board while the Scottish game isn't? You're not wrong that people outside of Scotland don't care, but the coverage has to come first. I doubt you care about watching table tennis but how would you if you never see it.

I think Main at his best was better than Bakayoko but whether he'll ever get there again is debatable. We can probably get better than Bakayoko, but he's absolutely someone I'd at least want in the squad. I think Beck is well out of our reach and I'm not sure we'd struggle to replace Costelloe. If we can sign McCracken, Boateng and Bakayoko then that would be a tremendous start. Dodgson, Mellon, Donnelly and Robinson I could see the logic in signing but I'm not sure we'd miss any of them.

This is kind of the point I was trying to make before. England doesn't care about Scottish football but they're never going to care if they're not able to see it, unless our league suddenly becomes like Saudi Arabia which I can't see happening somehow. The quality might not be amazing at the moment, but one of the most consistently interesting aspects of Scottish football is the Championship. A division that until recently was ignored completely and even now is broadcast exclusively in Scotland every other week or so. Is it really of lower quality and interest than a National League game in England that's on Sky/BT every week?

We are essentially making the same points here but from opposite viewpoints. You’re saying bad football has lead to a lack of coverage. I’m saying a lack of coverage has lead to bad football. You say English media doesn’t care about Scottish football, I say that’s exactly our biggest problem.

This is missing the point entirely though. Why do people in Scotland care about English football? The very top teams fine, but why are people watching Blackburn v Sheff We’d earlier today? Is it because it’s so much better than Motherwell v Aberdeen?

Not at all, the third tier in England is better than the third tier in Scotland, only an idiot would dispute that. The point is that the third tier in England is not better than the best clubs in this country. There also comes a point where quality is far less important than relevance. Why someone sitting in a house in Falkirk would rather watch a conference league match between West Ham and Ferencvaros than their local team is completely lost on me.

Didn’t say it was a conspiracy. I don’t think the BBC and others are actively trying to suppress Scottish football. Just that it’s a symptom of where we’ve found ourselves. The same goes for the rest of what you say. The only reason people in Scotland would care more about that English game is because they’ve been conditioned to believe they should. It’s certainly not for the quality or the relevance to their life.

I don’t necessarily mind that Scottish cup games are only covered on BBC Scotland while FA cup games are covered across the board as there is absolutely more interest in English football in Scotland than vice versa. The bit that annoys me is that an FA cup first round match between Chesterfield and Havant & Waterlooville will be shown in all BBC regions while a semi final between 2 of our top 5 clubs is exclusively shown in Scotland. English football didn’t become “the best in the world” because England is supposedly the home of football or because they play particularly exciting football. It happened because England learned very early on in the modern era that the best form of marketing was to ram it down our throats relentlessly until we can imagine no world where everyone isn’t utterly obsessed with English football. It’s another area where Scottish football continually shoots itself in the foot trying to make sure 100 people don’t watch a match from home instead of going, when we should be ensuring Scottish games are shown live as much as physically possible. Why would anybody new become interested in Dundee for example when we’ve been on the tv twice this season and in most seasons that would have resulted in 2 batterings rather than just 1.

There’s a logic in that and I’m sure 100+ years ago there were issues, but for whatever reason it just doesn’t exist any more. I was raised Protestant and went to a Catholic school and no one cared in the slightest - I’ve since rebelled against both in equal measure. I can’t think of a single occasion though where I saw any kind of animosity between the 2 except when certain football teams are in town.

I hope somebody has had a word with the folks over the road as they'll get a nasty surprise when the invoice from Sky arrives. Or perhaps when there's something in it for them they might actually give a toss which club is which.