Brewing up a storm

I'm a big fan of community ownership and supporter trusts but given that there was supporter involvement on the board over the last few years (arguably raising the question perhaps not of complicity in some of the recent goings-on but certainly of ability) I'd suggest there needs to be an honest reassessment by those involved and by those pushing community ownership of what the hell they were doing before there is any automatic assumptions that community ownership will actually work...

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. The old SFL allowed the franchising of Meadowbank Thistle to West Lothian under a completely dodgy character and the Rangers shenanigans aren't too different (although their shysters have actually been convicted in some cases). Others will probably know way better than I do, but IIRC the English system pretty much outlawed franchising after the MK Dons fiasco whereas in Scotland it is still allowed? May well be wrong on that though...

Are you sure? I find it very hard to believe that while all this was going on there were actually two fans on the board. I'm sure there's a Livingston supporter who can clarify this...

Although, as noted repeatedly above, the fans have actually been involved in running the club through their Supporters Trust representative being on the board so this probably correctly means zero sympathy for them as well...

I honestly thought this was a joke post until I looked at your other postings...

Your flag makes about as much sense as an MK Dons flag would that has a Wimbledon FC logo on it. PS Worked out whether either you or your club have managed to spell yet?

Err, the point isn't really whether you've seen both spellings used or not. It's whether you and/or your club are using a motto that doesn't actually mean anything (or, as is entirely possible, Google is wrong). PS Your attempt to co-opt Meadowbank Thistle on your flag automatically makes it crap

Interesting. According to Google translation (which may well be wrong) there's a word "fortiter" which translates as "bravely" but there is no such Latin word as "fortitier". So, the possibilities are... 1) Google has arsed up (not impossible) 2) Your suggested chant and the crappy flag posted earlier have both managed to spell your own motto incorrectly 3) Livingston FC has managed to have an official motto that they couldn't even spell accurately

Is probably most likely to be down to amnesia. He certainly had an outbreak a few years ago when he claimed that the reason he was one of the three or four Meadowbank Thistle fans who stabbed fellow supporters in the back to endorse Franchise L********n was because he didn't really know much about Thistle at the time. Conveniently forgetting he'd turned up at Thistle games for years, had been involved in pulling together a fanzine and knew entirely what was going on at the time. It's one thing to be a complete Judas, an entirely different one to deliberately lie about it.

Fantastic! One of my lines on Rangers-Supporters-Speak-Bingo included "****", "Pope" and "Reference to Catholic sex scandal". All I would have needed for a full house would have been "paedo"...

Including Livingston in there with the other clubs is a bit harsh as they shouldn't have been expelled for their repeated ventures into administration. Rather they should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.

Can't see the problem with his statement at all. I'd imagine its often closer to 15 fans than to 20,000 and its a reaalllly broad estimate but seems pretty true to me!

I'm not so sure. The amount of space given to Newco will not be dependent so much on what league they are but how much people want to read stories about them. There'd be a bit less interest in match reports and less exciting transfers but that would have to be balanced by the huge and continuing coverage of the ongoing omnishambles that is Newco. Of course, if Rangers go out of business entirely they'll definitely take a hit (and the tabloids would definitely be concerned about that) but at the moment it'd be minimal.

I know you've got a bit of stick, but as someone who still considers themself to be, first and foremost, a Meadowbank Thistle supporter I really appreciate the dedication you are showing in your username to a completely defunct and non-existing team whose history has died with them...

I would absolutely agree about the poor transport links across Fife. Once to get to a game in Methil I not only had to take the train and then two separate buses but then after spending 10 minutes in the town I also realised I'd mysteriously somehow transported myself about 450 years into the past as well...

I'm in favour of looking at league restructuring and the removal of teams that are a drain on the rest of Scottish football and believe that a sensible approach would be to trial it out gradually. In particular, there are way too many teams playing in the Glasgow area at present and it would therefore make perfect sense just to choose a particular team in that area to be shut down. I'm not sure if there are any teams in that area that are, for example, stuck in the bottom division, are financially struggling and, if such a thing is possible, have never ever won a single trophy (or even match!) in the whole of their history, but that would seem to be to be a very good candidate...

Nah, nah, he's not Zerzan at all. He's the Una-Bomber...

Enrager surely? Who is the Revol68 type around here anyway?

Nah, that's more likely to be nutty Zerzan-worshipping anarcho-primitivists than anarcho-syndicalists. I'll get my coat...

Yes, but my second point still stands. There are quite a few countries in Europe with a population around the size of ours so why do you pick Denmark rather than, say Bulgaria, Ireland or Georgia? There are some countries that are doing better than us such as Croatia or Denmark (although certainly the latter have nowhere near the record our teams do in European club competition) but equally a few that do noticeably worse (Finland or Molodova). Its always easy in football to point to one club doing miles better with the same attendance and complain that you aren't doing that well when the reality is that they are just an outlier and there are teams even worse than you. I'm not saying that Scotland could not do as well as Denmark or Croatia in a while because the law of averages suggest that eventually it will happen just as it might well happen that in some future time we're even worse than we are at present. I'm also not saying that the demise of Rangers won't lead to some improvement (it will lead to some, hopefully, just I doubt it will be a huge amount) but simply that the demise of Rangers will not see a return to the big attendances and European/World success you claim. I'd love to be wrong on this though!

ICT's statement was relatively good insofar as it suggests that they will not be in favour of changing things so Newco go in the SPL but that's merely reading between the lines. As far as facts go, they voted for Rangers out the SPL but only while (as we know now) there were plans to parachute them into the SFL. Then they released a quisling statement and now they've got money they've released a relatively non-committal statement which talks about "league reorganisation" (no further details given apart from wanting an expanded top league and they've been part of an SPL recently doing their damndest to talk a good game about reconstruction while actually offering as little as possible) and listening to the fans (no club claims otherwise and, judging by their previous statement, they don't do such a good job of this). I too am glad for new investment, but let's not get carried away over a relativel Edited to add: y ambiguous statement.

Umm, I suggest you check the size of the population of Holland. Or the population of Scotland. Or possibly both, because you're waaaaay off... Even if you weren't and even if Scotland did have the same population as Holland (clue: it's nowhere near) picking one example of a nation doing better than Scotland with the same population while ignoring the others that don't would hardly be a good argument.

I would absolutely love to think that this was the case but, unfortunately, I don't think it is. I think there are any number of more logical reasons for the decline of Scottish football since the mid-80s than the increasing strength of Rangers and the Old Firm. Other leagues have caught up with us in terms of finance, having quality training and coaching and youth systems, there's (arguably) the impact of Bosman and the huge rise in popularity of English football up here hitting attendance plus the increased cost of going to your local match. Realistically, these days why on earth would you expect any country the size of Scotland to regularly have clubs doing well in Europe? Don't get me wrong - I'd be absolutely furious if Newco are given any further preferential treatment (they should have been forced to reapply for Div 3) and I think it provides the opportunity for us to reshape Scottish football, but, even if things are reshaped the days of the mid-80s in terms of attendance and success in Europe are not coming back and, while the quality of our football would hopefully improve a bit to expect it to "improve greatly" is definitely overstating things.

If, and it is a huge if, Rangers go back in the SPL there is no way there would be such severe sanctions put in place that they'd run the risk of "Rangers" possibly getting relegated and the whole thing happening again. They obviously couldn't discount that it would happen (due to the financial situation of the team and their current lack of players) but they certainly wouldn't want to significantly contribute it and risk Newco being stuck in Division 1 for a year or two...

I'll be honest about this. I was all in favour of the rules being applied fairly to Rangers and them having to apply for Division Three as anyone else would. However, on seeing the following informative and intellectual destruction of all pro-diddy arguments I have been forced to change my mind completely... !