TheProgressiveLiberal

In the context of identity politics, which is about the redistribution of wealth between identity groups, there are far left local governments in the US.

Not if the government is doing their job. Again, there are KKK and Nazi rallies all the time. This situation occurred in a specific context. Far left governments across the country have been encouraging violent street protests by leftists and refusing to allow police to stop the violence. This is what the Charlottesville government did here. They got someone killed rather than properly police a Constitutionally protected gathering. I wonder why they declined to police the situation.

Who's justifying anything? I'm saying that this is the logical end of local Democratic governments condoning left wing street violence against peaceful political gatherings across the country over the past year.

Statistics on where police get shot are racist? They didn't get shot at where I grew up.

I played in the street with toy guns nearly every day of my childhood. I also didn't live in an area of the country where police had to worry about getting shot.

I'm not sure if you are joking, but KKK and Nazi rallies take place all the time in the US. Obviously they are usually a handful of people instead of thousands, but there's no reason they can't end peacefully if the police and local governments are doing their jobs. That job includes putting in jail left wingers who attempt to violently attack fascists.

If you're referring to the Tamir Rice case: Kid was near 6 ft tall. Dispatcher forgot to relay to officers that caller thought gun was fake. Orange cap that marks gun as fake was removed. Driver of cop car fucked up and pulled to within a few feet of kid instead of following protocol and pulling up farther away. Cop in passenger seat jumps out of car and is face to face with man sized person waving a gun. He is in one of the most violent neighborhoods in America. He shoots.

Ok, but the other side of this equation is the same, minus the racism. Antifa and BLM have used force across the country to shut down political gatherings from non-fascist groups. It's insane. Portland, OR had to cancel their town parade because Antifa threatened violence if the Oregon Republican Party was allowed to participate. So, is it just the racist part, and not the use of force part that's your main problem?

Heard a "We're here, we're gay, we fight the KKK" chant.

So, I assume you're referring to the Oath Keepers and 3%ers. I saw you reference this before. You are mistaken. Knowing their MO, these groups were their to protect private property. In states that allow open carry they gather at events like this to stop people from burning cars and smashing storefronts. Seems they were successful today because you didn't see as much of that as if this had happened in a place that bans open carry like California, DC, or NYC.

This question is specifically for pandarilla, welshy, and any of the other non-far lefties here: Do you believe that fascist groups who have gone through the proper permitting processes offered to all groups should be allowed to conduct public rallies free from attack? And if you think I'm defending this young man, you are mistaken. This is the natural consequence of a culture where street brawling (almost 100% from left wing groups like BLM and Antifa in recent US history) is tolerated by certain local government. I watched a livestream recording from reporter who was near where the car hit the crowd. There were antifa flags visible. About three minutes before they were chanting: "Who shut shit down? We shut shit down." The Charlottesville and Virginia government had months to prepare for this. Instead the cops didn't show up on time, immediately ordered a dispersal when they arrived, and then were given stand down orders as street brawling began. The last Nazi vs. Commie showdown that made national news was from a few months ago in Pike County, Kentucky. The same Nazi groups went there to have a mass rally and try to recruit in Trump's heartland. It's a country that went Republican twice between 1932 and 2008. Then it went 80% for Trump. Antifa groups from cities like Cincy and Charlotte announced they would counter demonstrate. The local government was obviously very annoyed, but they set to work. Their mayor requested everyone stay away, but said they'd respect the Constitutional rights of American citizens. The town council passed an anti-masking law. Local authorities requested extra state police and they were provided. The authorities set up staging areas for the protesters and escorted them to the protest site. Counter protesters were required to stay a certain distance away. Everyone was warned they follow the law or face arrest and severe prosecution. Police were deep between the two groups. Nothing happened. It's not hard if the government is doing their job, and not hoping that the goons of their side shut down the goons from the other side.

An apples to apples comparison between this incident and Muslim "terrorism" would go something like this: Sketchy Muslim group is opening a mosque (constitutionally protected peaceful activity). Extreme Christian group with a history of anti-Muslim violence show up to stop services from being held, using violence if necessary. Republican government which attempted to stop opening of mosque orders police to stand down. Fights involving both sides break out. A Muslim kills a couple of the Christians, who were at least affiliated with the violent group whether they were personally engaged in the violence or not. I would place this under political violence, but not terrorism.

I'd wager a large part of the Nazis marching today were hoping for a fight. But the fact is that these groups have peaceful rallies all over the country every week. Odds are the same happens here if the groups with an extensive recent history of engaging in political violence against peaceful people don't show up to fight. I'm sure we can dig up recent crimes committed by Nazis or KKK members, but I don't see regular burning of buildings and attacks on innocents at their rallies. That's antifa and BLM. Those groups deserve blame for creating this situation by setting out to deny the Constitutional rights of American citizens. Democrat politicians who have allowed this environment to grow in out country and who did not do their job to protect the march and keep the groups separate in this specific instance also deserve blame.

I'm not going to get into a semantic argument with you. You can call it what you want. What's different is that these two groups were there to fight. They literally came together hoping for violence. I'd personally argue that if we are assigning blame beyond the actual individual murderers to groups, the antifa folks were the ones there to shut down constitutional rights. Who knows what the Nazis would have done if no counter protesters showed up to try and stop their free speech? I suspect they all would have got into their cars and left when they were done marching. And the biggest problem is that our government in Democrat controlled areas has allowed groups which exist only to shut down the constitutional rights of other citizens to flourish with no punishment to the individuals involved.

Context matters. Groups like the Oath Keepers and 3%ers coordinate with the police before exercising their constitutional rights. They have zero history of violence and it's clear to the police exactly what is going on. It's quite a bid different than some dude running armed around a gang controlled neighborhood and the police have no idea what's happening. Quick story: On May Day Antifa and these militia groups gathered in my downtown. There were maybe 20-30 antifa types who were going to have a May Day rally. They wore masks and were yelling through bullhorns about whatever they yell about. Around 50 armed militia guys lined up on the other side of the street. They were there to make sure no damage was done to the town as happens in places like Berkeley or San Francisco. Members of the public were all honking their support for the militia as they drove buy. Those types are the core of actual Trump support, not these Nazi groups. The Nazis had to come from all over just to get a rally of any size. I've never met one of these folks. The militia types are everywhere and most people in conservative areas of the country know a few people semi-involved. They are like antifa or BLM in that there's supporters everywhere throughout the country. The Nazi groups have very, very limited support, but they do make a good story for the news. And of course it's convenient for the media to try and hang their actions around the necks of the entire right.

I see the left has gotten their semantic ducks in a row by attempting to define this as "terrorism." Got a couple texts from Democrat friends using that exact word. It's worth a try I suppose, but I don't think people are going to buy in that Nazis fighting commies in the street is the same as random Islamic terrorism. The root of the problem is the willingness of Democrat politicians across the country over the past year refusing to protect the Constitutional rights of conservatives. In Democrat controlled area after Democrat controlled area we've seen normal Trump supporters (not these Nazi groups) physically attacked by Antifa and BLM. People were injured and massive property damage was always the result. The proper authorities clearly did not do what was needed to stop this behavior. Now, we need to wait and see what the specific situation is here, but we have a far left Democratic city govt and moderate left Democratic governor. The city government tried to ban the march, but were slapped down by the courts. We know that early on in the day the police were ordered not to interfere in clashes. Did these Democrat politicians hope the end result would be the same as previous events where Antifa and BLM "won" the day? The Democratic Party needs to take a long look in the mirror and consider their position on law and order and constitutional rights vs. street violence.

Lol

This is from a few weeks ago and it might be mumbo jumbo anyways, but Scott Adams has a theory behind Trump's strategy. 1. He made a big public announcement about how great China is and he was convinced they could handle this situation. 2. China's still great, but I guess they just can't handle something this big. The end goal is to make China handle the situation in order to save face.

Fair enough, although I remember some hot female leader from eastern Europe giving him the eyes.

I don't think this is correct, nor do I think that type of person is exclusive to Trump supporters when it comes to politics.