Marten

Is it so hard to understand that there are good (LTHV / Leith / Hawick) and poor (Tweedmouth / Ormiston) EOS sides and there are good (East Superleague / top half East Premier) and poor (South division / amateurs) sides moving over? Yes, there will be both "dross" and good sides in the division, but that's the whole point of a transitional season. The "dross" sides drop into EOS Division 1 and the good sides form the EOS Premier (or whatever names the divisions will have from 2019). People who are pointing out that the likes of Bonnyrigg will thump teams like Tweedmouth with double figures might be right, but they are highly unlikely to be in the same division for more than one season. After one season, the better teams play each other and have the chance to move up to the LL, while the poorer sides can just enjoy their football at their level against each other. Exactly the whole point of a pyramid!

What don't you understand about the EOS moving to 2 divisions after a transitional season? The top 16 in the EOS looks like a more attractive league than what remains in the East Superleague, especially if Penicuik & Newtongrange Star are also moving over. The "dross" will end up in EOS Division 1 or something like that.

Quick, sue them for copying your stuff without permission!

I can understand though why Dundee has been included in the HFL area. With the way the population is spread over Scotland, it's always a challenge to draw a good boundary. The bulk of people live in/near the central belt, which is all LL area. Including the 2 largest population centres outside the central belt, Aberdeen and Dundee, in the HFL area makes sense from that point of view. Even now, only roughly 25% of the population lives in the HFL area. If the boundary is redrawn at Brechin, it becomes less than 10% (and that still includes the islands that will realistically not get a HFL team in the foreseeable future).

I think it would then only be a matter of time before the remaining clubs from the Lothians jump ship. The East Superleague will become very Tayside dominated, with the amount of trips over the Tay Bridge, clubs will eventually go for the EOS which will offer more local games.

Thanks! I'm watching football at all levels and have been to a nice mix of grounds, from Pittodrie & Hampden to tiny junior grounds. I've also been to Cowdenbeath. I must admit that I even haven't been to any Dutch games in a while myself. I'm planning to go to at least one Excelsior game next season though.

I live in Scotland and closely follow football here. I don't really have a favourite (yet), but I just like groundhopping and go to games all over the country. GAE had a pretty rubbish season, but they're so inconsistent, they could soon be challenging promotion again...

I'm Dutch.

Let's also mention the Eerste Divisie. In "other leagues" I posted the following: "The Eerste Divisie (2nd tier) is going to be a hell of a league next season. In terms of support, they got the 4th biggest team in the country (Twente) in there and 3 other massive clubs in Roda JC, NEC and Sparta. Also Go Ahead Eagles, Cambuur Leeuwarden and MVV are in size of support clubs that could easily be eredivisie. Comparable to Hearts, Hibs and Rangers all being in the Championship over here...". It's going to be an interesting season for sure. Only the champions get promoted, if a colt team win the league (like Ajax in 2018), the highest eligible team will get promoted. A further 8 teams enter the play-offs. A complicated system is used, but basically the season is split in 4 periods of 9 games each, with the first 2 games not counting towards any period. Each game from round 3 on counts for both that period and the total standings. The champions of each period qualify for the play-offs. If a colt team or a team that won a previous period wins one, the second placed team qualify for the play-offs. If the runners up are also a colt team or a team that have won a previous period, the play-off ticket will not be given out for that period. At the end of the season, the amount of vacant spots in the play-offs (at least 4, can be more if the champions have a PO ticket and/or period PO tickets haven't been given out as explained) will be filled using the final league table, so there are 8 teams in total. Teams finishing 2nd - 5th (again, ignoring colt teams) get a bye in the first PO round, just like the numbers 16 and 17 in the Eredivisie. The 2 winners of the 3rd round qualify for the next season in the Eredivisie. As said above, it is unlikely that the bottom team will get relegated. So it is in theory possible to finish bottom and get promoted if you do win a period. This system also means that 8 out of the 16 teams eligible for promotion will be in the play-offs at the end of the season. The following teams will take part: Almere City Cambuur Leeuwarden FC Den Bosch FC Dordrecht FC Eindhoven Go Ahead Eagles Helmond Sport MVV Maastricht NEC Nijmegen RKC Waalwijk Roda JC Sparta Rotterdam Telstar TOP Oss FC Twente FC Volendam Ajax Colts AZ Colts PSV Colts FC Utrecht Colts

Long story short: financial mismanagement got them into deep trouble. In 2016 they were initially forcibly relegated due to fraud. They got away with it in the end (undeserved in my opinion), but now they did get relegated on the pitch. Not definitely confirmed yet, but it seems like it won't happen...

As suggested, I'm starting a thread on Dutch football. The line-up for the eredivisie next season is known now the play-offs have finished. Promotion/relegation resulted in some shocks. FC Twente, 2010 Dutch champions and the largest club in terms of support outside of the "big 3" have been automatically relegated by finishing bottom. Roda JC and Sparta Rotterdam are also 2 (in terms of support) big sides who got relegated, both failed to win the play-offs. Meanwhile, teams with the smallest support/budgets in last season's eredivisie like Excelsior (my club) and VVV Venlo stayed up comfortably, Excelsior even for the 4th consecutive season. Promotion from the Eerste Divisie was surprising as well. NEC Nijmegen were in support the biggest team in the division and fully expected to go straight back up after their relegation in 2017. Fortuna Sittard, a team that nobody expected to be amongst the contenders, finished second behind Ajax Colts who can't get promoted. As a result, Fortuna Sittard returned to the Eredivisie for the first time since relegation in 2002. On various occasions since then the club looked like going bust or losing their professional license, but they defied all odds by surviving and are now back in the top flight. De Graafschap got promoted via play-offs and return after their relegation in 2016. FC Emmen also got promoted via play-offs. They were the biggest surprise in the play-offs, defeating NEC and Sparta. They will be in the Eredivisie for the first time ever. Not only that, but it will even be the first time ever that a team from their province Drenthe (the most rural and least densely populated province in the country) will be in the Eredivisie. PSV will be the defending champions. They will also play in the Champions League qualifiers together with runners-up Ajax. Cup winners Feyenoord, 3rd place AZ and play-off winners Vitesse will play in the Europa League qualifiers. The line-up for the eredivisie will be: ADO Den Haag Ajax AZ FC Emmen Excelsior Feyenoord Fortuna Sittard De Graafschap FC Groningen SC Heerenveen Heracles Almelo NAC Breda PEC Zwolle PSV FC Utrecht Vitesse VVV-Venlo Willem II

As an Excelsior fan, I'm definitely happy with this. Obviously, I don't have much with Sparta either. I realise we will again be expected to be amongst the relegation candidates. But so were we the last 4 years and we stayed up each time. Wait and see I suppose. The Eerste Divisie (2nd tier) is going to be a hell of a league next season. In terms of support, they got the 4th biggest team in the country (Twente) in there and 3 other massive clubs in Roda JC, NEC and Sparta. Also Go Ahead Eagles, Cambuur Leeuwarden and MVV are in size of support clubs that could easily be eredivisie. Comparable to Hearts, Hibs and Rangers all being in the Championship over here...

I enjoyed the game, wonderful winning goal too.

How is generally the feeling at the club about this step? Obviously, your position is well known, but are there many people who are against it?

The Dutch play-off formula is a mess, I wouldn't use that. Also, your set-up wouldn't work, 18 would be too many for the SPL. And we're just moving to a pyramid system, while you want to stop relegation? And groups in the cup? No thanks...

Will be my first cup final. I don't support either team, so I can just enjoy it.

Going to that one as well! Saturday Celtic v Motherwell at Hampden, followed by this one on Sunday. Obviously, the one on Saturday is just a starter for the main one on Sunday.

Good, so I can enjoy watching football in good weather.

In my opinion, the new WoSFL should invite SoSFL & West Superleague teams. The remaining teams in both leagues can then be feeders to the WoSFL. The area that the SoSFL serves is too small to be a LL feeder league in itself and I can imagine that most teams in the league don't fancy long trips to current West Superleague teams, so they can keep playing each other.

There are 160 junior teams currently. Add HL/LL/EoS/SoS teams to it and there are still fewer than 256 teams, meaning no extra rounds are needed. I do think something in the senior section needs to be dumped, but that shouldn't be an issue as they get a national cup to replace it.

Clubs can indeed just not apply for a license to avoid promotion. Mandatory promotion from LL to SPFL should be in place for a proper pyramid (with more relegation places from SPFL). I would like to see 3 relegation places from LL. To prevent teams blocking promotion, the highest eligible teams from both WOS & EOS should get promoted together with a play-off winner. If a licensed team turns down promotion, they lose the license and can only qualify for the Scottish cup via qualifying routes. In that way all teams can be in the pyramid.

I have no problem with people watching & enjoying junior football. I regularly watch non-league football, both junior and senior, which I love & enjoy. I just still don't think there is much of a difference. At both senior and junior non-league football I have visited proper community clubs, generally paid a very fair ticket price and encountered friendly people & hard working volunteers who clearly care about their club. I have seen good and poor attendances & standards of football at both. To me, non-league is non-league, it's something I love and regularly watch, but all the "advantages" of junior football, also exist in senior non-league football, so I just don't see the big problem. I have yet to be convinced about 1 good thing of junior football that can't happen in a pyramid. Yes, there is the junior cup, but I see no reason why that can't be expanded to include all of non-league. And let's be honest, for the vast majority of junior sides, the junior cup is not something they can realistically win. That doesn't make these clubs any less of a community club. Many of the "arguments" against the pyramid are a result of the non-participation of the SJFA. No, I'm not a fan of Edusport, but would they honestly have been in the LL now if they'd first have to battle past the strong west juniors like Auchinleck Talbot and others? They played it by the rules and have every right to be where they are, but they wouldn't have been at that level in a proper pyramid. Poorly supported teams exist on both sides of the "divide". Anti-pyramid posters like to point out that the pyramid is "flawed", but with most non-league clubs not taking part, it's always going to be flawed. Had all juniors been in it, then there would have been better promotion/relegation for example. The standard now drops rapidly when you go down the leagues, with more strong teams that would be far less the case so there would be a much stronger case for a better promotion/relegation settlement. And finally, how can people claim that in a pyramid the juniors would have no say if they have literally refused to properly engage all those years?

I red dot posts when I see insults (like monkeys and other unacceptable posts. That often includes your posts. I don't red dot people I disagree with just because of disagreeing with it, as long as that post is in a respectable manner, fine, agree to disagree.

It is indeed.

There is no difference except for a label, it's as simple as that.