Dev

Well it is now down to the LL, E0S and SoS to debrief following the PWG meeting i.e. as usual. It will be interesting to see what happens after these leagues hold their next regular individual meetings. Whenever they may be - presumably they each hold monthly meetings? Hopefully there will be action following these meetings. Whether that action is open to view or not remains to be seen. Hopefully something positive will then emerge so that other Juniors will have a route to follow.

Then clubs should make sure that there are good quality replacements ready to stand up and be counted. Having said that why bother? Just have these good people organised and waiting a little longerand be ready to put themselves forward to help with the new WoS.

Who's this TJ character then that people are talking about? Is it that nice guy who represents all that the once great Juniors stood for or is it the person who is unable to change with the times and seems to "misunderstand" his role completely. He could have had control of the semi-pro scene if he'd had his wits about him all those years ago when the Pyramid first came along. Ah! Well! No he couldn't just see that. It also seems to me that, having been embarrassed into holding a Pyramid Survey, he failed to carry out the instructions of the Junior clubs when they responded favourably to the Pyramid a couple of years ago. Shame in some ways but now he'll be left calculating just how many current Juniors have to depart before his job becomes unaffordable to those which remain. In any case he is there to provide clubs with accurate neutral information so that they came make informed decisions about their individual and collective futures. Shame that reports indicate that, at best, he simply failed to do this. At worst ……… I suspect we shall soon see the outcome of this.

I sincerely hope so!

Yes, but we've also seen interest and preparations from currentwest Juniors for a move to senior football. Then there's the talks between the North Juniors and the Highland League plus more(?) east Juniors allegedly moving over.

But don't forget that clubs rise and fall up and down leagues over a period of time and things change. Just look at Dunipace and Camelon. It shows that there are ambitious clubs at all levels and the west is no exception..

If clubs move into senior football then I think that it would be unwise to close the door on those which remain Junior or Amateur. Leave the door open so they may get a glimpse of what life is really like in the senior set up. Also give the NCL a place in the real "Big" Scottish Cup.

I can see the NJFA saying goodbye to the Juniors and becoming a senior league soon. This would leave the remains of the ERJFA (less more clubs switched to the EoS for 2020/21) and whoever remains in the WRJFA after clubs leave because they wish to follow the licencing route or because they have ambition or because they aren't comfortable with the SJFA/WRJFA hierarchy or because they are unhappy with the attitudes of a minority of clubs which exist to live in the past or etc etc. Dissatisfied clubs can be pro-active. Just email or phone the local senior leagues. Contact details are on the SFA web site: https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5422/scottish-fa-handbook-2019-20.pdf And they are here (from the SFA 2019/20 Handbook): THE SCOTTISH LOWLAND FOOTBALL LEAGUE Secretary David Baxter, 23/5 South Elixa Place, Edinburgh, EH8 7PG Telephone(s) (M) 07952 534015 (H) 0131 652 1633 Email secretary@slfl.co.uk Website www.slfl.co.uk THE EAST OF SCOTLAND FOOTBALL LEAGUE Secretary David Baxter, 23/5 South Elixa Place, Edinburgh, EH8 7PG Telephone(s) (M) 07952 534015 (H) 0131 652 1633 Email leaguesecretary@eastofscotlandfa.co.uk Website www.eosfl.com THE SOUTH OF SCOTLAND FOOTBALL LEAGUE Secretary Richard Osborne, 29 Castle Street, Dumfries DG1 1DL Telephone(s) (M) 07764 259 195; Email richard.osborne1962@googlemail.com Website www.southofscotlandfootballleague.co.uk Best of luck. Don't despair. Make it happen!

After the recent performance of the west juniors hierarchy this is the SJFA shooting themselves in the other foot - just to make sure that anyone can see that they are not fit for purpose! Time for LL/EoS/SoS to make things happen for the good of semi-pro football. These leagues have the necessary abilities and experience to get this off the ground.

My reading of all this is that the SJFA has thrown in the towel about participating in the Pyramid. This clears the way for the missing WoS league to be set up with no cause for recriminations by any association or club. It also voluntarily cuts the SJFA out of any Pyramid discussions within the next few seasons. Never been a better time to invite expressions of interest from clubs in a new WoS league. It's about making things happen so this clears the way!

In my opinion the stable door was opened up by Kelty and then Dalkeith in the east. They wished to make progress as clubs and were fortunate that, in the east, there was already a senior league in existence and within the Pyramid. They were able to leave the juniors because they had a route out of it which they could take and they chose to do just that. It's all about freedom of choice. In the west there is no freedom to choose. If junior clubs are happy just where they are then, in my view, that's fair enough. However, surely the SJFA and the west junior league cannot be afraid of there being a choice for semi-pro clubs in the west i.e. an independent senior league within the Pyramid so why would they need to object if one is formed? They would still have the responsibility for catering for the remaining juniors. Isn't that why they exist in the first place?

Guessing that any west clubs showing interest in joining a new WoS senior league may keep things under wraps, as a precaution, until there is certainty. However, if there is enough confidence about the new league taking all applicants which meet the criteria then we may see open statements from clubs. In any case, presumably, clubs will be holding meetings of members/supporters to get their views. That should give a few clues.

Let's be clear about this. The new league organised outside the SJFA ain't happening as yet but the speculation mentioned in this thread refers to something of the sort surfacing after the PWG meeting of the 29th January - so we all will have to see if this idea actually surfaces then or later.

Nobody knows as the clubs won't tell us anything about where they stand. Well. If it comes down to a brand new league being formed, and it is the West of Scotland Senior League, its' start will probably be on the basis that clubs are invited to apply for membership i.e. as at the start of the Lowland League. One thing which I believe can be relied upon is that the names of the applicants will be kept under wraps permanently, including names of clubs which are not accepted, and including clubs which do not follow through with their applications. Just like the formation of the Lowland League and that's how it should be - so don't wait for leaks from whoever organises such league! It will be interesting to see if this new league does go ahead and if successful clubs will be able to keep the lid on their applications from P&B etc until the official announcement is made. In other words applications will be confidential and will be kept this way by the league organisers. This way there's no way that clubs which apply can be pressurised or victimised.

North Juniors would have no reason to remain subject to the SJFA. If they wanted they could just go it alone as a part of the Highland League Pyramid.

The point being that clubs cannot even begin the licence process until they are within a Pyramid league. Just ask Cumnock and Petershill. Clubs have to move first of all and then they have until approx. the next February to get the application completed and approved (?) so enter for 2020/21 for a licence from summer 2021. Delay by a year and its' 2022 before a licence can be achieved.

It's the Lowland League/SoS/EoS which are in the PWG meetings so they can instigate this even if the SJFA doesn't like it or wish to co-operate with it. There is also the argument that the SJFA isn't capable of organising anything in an open and responsible way, which seems to have been proved again at the recent West Juniors meeting. It's final straw time so watch out for an independent WoS for 2020/21.

Your club would be more than welcome if it makes the move. Same for the others too.

No. I wasn't thinking that there should be a merger of the top North and north of Taybridge Juniors. They need not to travel outside their areas at the level beneath the Highland League. They would be separate feeder leagues to the HL.

In the short term there would be a Super Highland League but why not go down the route which you suggest with North & West and East & South parallel leagues in due course?

Maybe, if the stronger Tayside clubs move up to the Highland League then it will encourage amateurs to step up to the Tayside League. There could even be some sort of merger or agreed pathway between Tayside leagues?

Just goes to show. When the SJFA isn't involved then progress is possible! Perhaps this is a clue that the SFA's next step is to disband the "other" Associations at last i.e. Junior, Amateur, Works FA's. Other Nations have gone down this path. Is Scotland finally recognising that there is no longer a justification for these fiefdoms?

At last some common sense! The point in the northern portion of the Pyramid is that there should be a route for automatic promotion (subject to meeting Highland League criteria) for any club which has such ambitions. The majority of NCL, Northern Junior and Tayside Junior clubs won't be affected as they don't have the potential to make the step up but, at least, it opens the door and they could make plans for progression over time. If title winning clubs are not licenced then they won't/cannot be promoted in any case - so nothing to fear. If the experience in England and Wales is anything to go by then, once there is a way forward i.e. certainty re criteria and a pathway for clubs outside the Highland League to plan ahead and show ambition, some will do so as they won't be knocked back for other reasons! This also gives the potential for the standard of the Highland League to be raised as weaker clubs can be replaced. Imagine the contribution which clubs like Lochee United, Broughty Athletic, etc could make to the Highland League. They would quickly find that many of their matches were within easy reach i.e. Inverurie Loco Works, Fraserburgh, Formartine United, Turriff United, Banks O'Dee (next season?) plus relegated SPFL 2 sides with Brechin City an obvious possibility.

Look folks, what we have here is some-one - LongTimeLurker - putting forward a stir-up of theories which create debate at a time when the SJFA and the East region Juniors are in difficulty with the potential for a significant exodus of clubs from the East Juniors to the EoS. This is seen as an existential threat to the SJFA as if the east goes then the West will tumble soon enough and that will be the end for a meaningful SJFA. Someone has to fight their corner on P&B so that's about it really. Look back at the build up to the last exodus of East Juniors to the seniors and you will see why the SJFA is in such a panic when this time of the season arrives. They're a pack of cards waiting to be blown over by those who are competent at running leagues. There's an alternative for current Juniors in the East. That's why the SJFA are desparate to avoid an alternative for clubs in the West (not South). I feel sorry for LongTimeLurker. Although I can't see much point in entertaining him/her by being drawn into responding to his "provocation".

You are correct! Agreed! However, there comes a point when enough is enough and that stage has been reached with certain individuals associated with the West Juniors and the SJFA. You can't argue very strongly against the view that they have brought it upon themselves. Sadly they will bring down some decent people with them unless those now stand up and be counted.