Dev

You are correct! Agreed! However, there comes a point when enough is enough and that stage has been reached with certain individuals associated with the West Juniors and the SJFA. You can't argue very strongly against the view that they have brought it upon themselves. Sadly they will bring down some decent people with them unless those now stand up and be counted.

In the past west clubs seeking to go senior e.g. Talbot, were told by the SFA to go to the South of Scotland League. It only needs a small number of clubs to apply to this league in order for it to go to two divisions or EoS style Conferences. Winners go to the Lowland League play-off if licenced. Alternatively check with the EoS or the Lowland leagues for assistance in setting up a new division as a fore-runner of a new WoS league. Either way would provide a ready made SFA approved set of rules and regulations plus vital experience and contacts. Ultimately it is about making things happen and not just waiting around/making excuses. The alternative is to continue to be held to the equivalent of ransome by the Juniors?

In your opinion do you consider that the SFA would down-grade west (not South) of Scotland clubs for moving forward on an individual basis, whatever that may be (e.g. moving to the EoS or the SoS and getting licenced) if a WoS was subsequently formed. Surely they would be obliged to fit them in at the same level? Indeed why don't such progressive clubs make a joint approach to these leagues in any case as the SJFA isn't going anywhere - although I would be happy to be proved wrong about this presumption!

If there is more delay for the West Juniors' entry into the Pyramid wouldn't clubs from the west of Scotland which already have licences be the first in the queue for a place in a Tier 6 Senior Pyramid League?

Given the SJFA's long term track record regarding the Pyramid the possibility of : [a] Gaining a licence and annual entry into the real Big Scottish is small. There must be the risk that the West Juniors' entry into the Pyramid is delayed even longer than just 2021/22.

This will be determined by the number of additional clubs applying to join for next season. If there's sufficient to form a third Tier 7 Conference then it needs to be for just a single season with the better clubs then moving into a Division One with a new Tier 8 split on a North - South basis on a permanent basis. In the event that the number of new clubs is such that they can be accommodated easily into two Tier 7 Conferences then the league needs to listen hard to the views of the existing Tier 7 clubs and follow their wishes even if this means going to a region-wide lower Tier 8 where such clubs can get back to enjoying their matches instead of receiving regular hammerings.

As the league expands then the entry place for new clubs (other than Lowland League relegations) will be at the lowest available level. Currently the Conferences are the lowest level - at Tier 7. It is a possibility that this could change quickly with new clubs having to come in at Tier 8 even by next season. This is the risk which potential new clubs have to consider i.e. will the entry place be Tier 7 or 8 next season. For some it won't matter too much but for others it could be felt that it is a step down from they are currently. There-again next season may be the last chance for some clubs, e.g. ERJFA South Supreme level, to come in at Tier 7 i.e. current Conferences level. Decisions! Decisions!

Indeed. However, we should all recall that the SFA's representatives were subsequently informed that they had been ill advised. Suspect your comment has over-looked this.

I am not suggesting that I know any different. Hence "Maybe (?)". However, just standing back and observing what has happened during the recent seasons it seems to me that a turning point is here for the West Juniors. There are some good people involved in the West who have politely refrained from causing any splits in the League but there is a limit to the blocks put in place by some others along the way, and this is about to change, once and for all. The West League has already modified some of its' rules so it is part of the way there already. If in any doubt then the West can more or less use the existing EoS league rules, adapting them as necessary.

If this happens then I think that could be the final straw for the SFA and they may invite applications to set up and run a new WoS league or keep that task in-house and then invite applications for membership from west clubs. Maybe (?) this could happen sooner rather than later.

Given the above where does the East Region Junior League fit into all of this, as it straddles both sides of the line of Latitude, and apparently (?) the SFA will not allow a winner of the play-off between the North and South sections to be promoted to Tier 5. Also, at present there are teams from south of the line of Latitude which play in the North section.

Good point. The Rules regarding the Line of Latitude separating the HL and LL zones were designed with the SPFL in mind. Nothing-else was taken into account. However, in order to have a workable Pyramid below Tier 6 there needs to be a little pragmatism/common sense injected. In the event that a team at Tier 6 or below wishes to play in a League "on the other side of the line of Latitude" why can't they be given a simple dispensation to do so in the SFA Rules? Then Tayport could play in a Dundee/Angus Tier 6 League whilst Luncarty could play in e.g. the EoS. In such situations the teams would have to acknowledge that for the purposes of promotion to Tier 5 they would not be eligible unless they reverted back to their original zones. The rules of the LL/HL would need to be adjusted so that such teams, upon winning their leagues, would be disregarded with promotion going to the next eligible team. Simples! Job done.

Well, at least, the matter of the line of Latitude and its' implications will be something which RP and AM will be aware of now - after last years' learning curve for them! Let's hope that they can come up with a satisfactory resolution/clarification to this issue by the end of this season. By the way, which Tay Bridge does the rule refer to? Or is a line of Latitude given in the rule and it is that which matters? Perhaps the SFA can just say that the rule need not apply to Tier 6 and below i.e. leave it to the Tier 6 Leagues to decide on an individual basis whether or not they will accept teams on the "other" side of the given line of Latitude i.e. some Perthshire clubs may be given dispensation to accept a place in the EoS if that League is willing to take them on board?

Does the East Region Junior League have a meeting arranged to discuss the proposals?

Looking at the 22 East Juniors which are south of the Tay Bridge line. IF 16 of these were to make the move to the EoS then the East Juniors would be down to 22 existing clubs (6 plus 16 from north of the Tay Bridge line) plus any potential newcomers. What happens then? If I recall correctly there was one proposal which created a new Senior league for north of Tay Bridge clubs. This would have to exclude the 6 from south of the line?? as it would be in HL territory. What happens to those 6 clubs under these circumstances? If there was to be a new North of Tay Bridge League i.e. Tayside Senior League then those 16 remaining north of the Tay Bridge line clubs could do very well indeed out of it. Thinking that (Looking at the Non-League Scotland web site information) a number of them are close to Licencing standard already e.g. Broughty Athletic, Downfield Juniors, Dundee North End, Kirriemuir Thistle, Arbroath Victoria, Brechin Victoria, Coupar Angus. They could be guaranteed Scottish FA Cup entry every season plus the annual SFA associate membership fee. Also, those which remain unlicenced would have the chance of Scottish FA Cup entry if they won the league and maybe if there was a Cup for Senior unlicenced clubs as in the south?

Presumably any Juniors applying would be acceptable, although some clubs may have to make plans for enclosing grounds, at least, on match days There could be other issues too, who knows? However, such things can be sorted out if there is goodwill. Aren't Community clubs separate anyway? If not then why not adjust the EoS rules - it wouldn't be difficult.

Unfortunately for the ERSJFA its' clubs have heard all of this before. It proved to be non-sense then and it wouldn't exactly be a huge surprise to any of them if it turned out to be the same this time too. Sadly it has come to this for loyal East Junior clubs. Loyalty not rewarded. There again there are viable alternatives for them, should they choose to move. In the event that any East Juniors are considering a move to the EoS it may be best to put in applications to in time for the 31st March EoS dead-line. The EoS may make decisions then on the structure of the league for next season. More clubs could mean the need for an additional division/conference or two. There are also clubs currently outside the EoS and East Region Juniors which have expressed interested in joining too in the past e.g. Eyemouth United, Glenrothes Strollers. Others could follow. How many additional clubs could the EoS take in?

re: clubs looking to join the Highland League I saw a rumour on another forum that Bridge Of Don Thistle are interested in moving up to the HL. Ofc do to so the club would need a waiver of sorts as they have no licence & can't obtain one currently being outwith the pyramid. However, it is a Chicken and Egg situation now and if the SFA mean to facilitate a Pyramid they could perhaps take a step back and try to understand that they are causing a blockage with regard to licencing and to movement up to the Highland League - but not to clubs moving to senior football in the east of Scotland.

Presumably any club which is applying for a licence and is expecting to be in a Senior League for 2020/21 couldn't be held back by the SFA? … so maybe the SFA will be in a position to start the licencing process for Cumnock and Petershill, and any other current West Region Junior club moving into a senior league situation in 2020/21. Indeed, or any other club moving into the EoS (or the Highand League for that matter) for next season.

If the West Region clubs come into the Pyramid en masse for 2020/21 then surely a good few of them will be capable of becoming licenced in readiness for 2020/21 ? This would put them straight into the Scottish Cup too. Why wait? There may be approaching 20 clubs which already have Flood-lights or are planning to have them soon. It is supposed that Cumnock and Petershill are already in the licencing process. I don't suppose that Clydebank and others will just hold back a year before going for licencing. Why would they?

Given that the SJFA West Region (?or its'top division) adopted SFA Disciplinary procedures this season this may be the logical next step.

'Overlapping geographical areas' wasn't a problem until the EOSL became 39 teams. If I remember correctly an old Post from FairWeatherFan showed that from the outset of the Pyramid the two eastern leagues were supposed to merge. However, the existing Senior league would be the priority league, or something along those lines EOSL. Of course the EOSL has since grown stronger and the Eastern Juniors has become weaker than it used to be.

But remember it is those who choose the question (s) to be asked who control the direction of the answers. This is what happened last time. Clubs will now make up their own minds. The SFA will have learned a thing or two as well.

Many a cautious committee is trying to come to terms with an awkward situation, and it can't be easy. Supporters are now quizzing them, which is a difficult pressure to deal with. They'll also have AGM's ahead and the old certainties may not be so certain any more.

Yes clubs are seeing it. They've seen it for a while now. Losing money just from being licenced and from automatic entry into the Scottish Cup has made club treasurers sit up and now they're making it difficult for cautious committees to just sit back and go with the flow rather than looking at the realistic costs of going for a licence, or even just joining the Pyramid. There's bound to be an Alex Jack equivalent for non-licenced clubs too so some clubs will have a chance of Scottish FA Cup entry without being licenced. They'll probably have more of a chance of winning that than winning the Junior Cup or Regional League!