Pyramidic

OPTION 1 If the NRJFA are not interested and the SJFA agree to proceed with a "reduced membership option" the case can be made: 1. WRJFA are in for 2019/20 2. ERJFA issues remain unresolved - therefore placed on hold until 2020/21 enabling the current difficulties to be properly addressed [The situation may then sort itself out before we get to 2020/21 as some further ERJFA clubs will migrate to the EoSFL]. OPTION 2 If the SJFA do not wish to follow the "reduced membership option" then the West will not be in the Pyramid for 2019/20 and their core membership will become very disgruntled. [As a result key clubs in the west will be much more receptive to joining an emerging LL2 West for 2020/21]. It is a bit like a game of chess which ever way that TJ moves the SJFA gets into difficulties. OPTION 3 I suppose the issue might be fudged with TJ badgering IM and the SFA into accepting interim arrangements for the NRJFA (with a time limit when the Highland League Pyramid becomes operational) . [However would such a fudge be acceptable to the SFA , HL and others?]

Why not take a photo and put it through https://www.onlineocr.net/ .

I suppose the issue will come to head if the SFA attempt to force Junior access to the Pyramid next season in contradiction of current rules and statutes. I think that it would be much better if IM takes the alternative route and sits down with TJ and explains that for the benefit of Scottish Non League football, clubs within West Lothian and Fife (with the exception of Tayport) fall within the footprint of the EoSL and are encouraged to transfer over leaving the formation of a new Tayside Junior League for the remaining clubs. This is where the SFA should be forcing the issue and as far as I am aware such action would complement rather than contradict current pyramid arrangements. Junior clubs in west Lothian and Fife not wishing to transfer can form their competition outwith the Pyramid. However such an initiative would require real leadership and the question is whether the new CE would have the stomach to follow it through.

I forgot that one! What about promotion / relegation places? Is the lower pyramid play off matches likely to be competing for one single place ? Or is it a matter that the SFA will leave to the LL to decide at their AGM? Personally I would have thought that the number of places that should be on offer is a pretty big issue as it will dictate the success of the pyramid. Will the SFA be impotent on the issue? Will the SJFA wish to keep the number as small as possible to ensure that they do not "leach" member clubs?

Has the re-constituting of the Junior Cup come up at all in the discussions Superbigal and the "carrot" of entry for Senior Clubs been offered?

I wish this was case. However how close is Tom Johnston's office to Ian Maxwell's office? I am fearful we may be seeing a case of respective interests of the two national organisations being aligned while those of the EoSFL/EoSFA becomes increasingly side-lined. None of us will ever have any clue of what has been agreed at informal meetings between the SFA and SJFA at executive level. The SFA Pyramid is a big issue for Ian Maxwell under his stewardship of the SFA. I would suspect that he just wants Juniors and Seniors under "one Pyramid umbrella" for 2019/20 and will then wait and see how things pan out in the future and will address "the most demanding problems" as they arise. I suspect in the context of promotion to the Lowland league that the SFA will consider a "four way play-off" to be neat and tidy and will be a feather in Maxwell's cap that under his watch he has achieved a sort of unity at non-league level. It takes time to achieve uniformity at non-league level and the English are still tinkering with their approach years after their pyramid was first set up.

With regard to some of the legal info that Burnie_Man and FairWeatherFan have kindly turned out on the two Pyramid threads do we have an issue that the EoSL/EoSFA could potentially take to the Court of Arbitration for Sport ("CAS") or International Council of Arbitration for Sport ("ICAS") if their postion is over-ruled by the SFA? Are the rules / statutes that have been quoted legally binding in sports terms? Sources: Court of Arbitration for Sport ("CAS") / International Council of Arbitration for Sport ("ICAS") https://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-information/frequently-asked-questions.html https://www.tas-cas.org/en/icas/code-statutes-of-icas-and-cas.html NB: Copied over from the other thread.

With regard to some of the legal info that Burnie_Man and FairWeatherFan have kindly turned out on the two Pyramid threads do we have an issue that the EoSL/EoSFA could potentially take to the Court of Arbitration for Sport ("CAS") or International Council of Arbitration for Sport ("ICAS") if their postion is over-ruled by the SFA? Are the rules / statutes that have been quoted legally binding in sports terms? Sources: Court of Arbitration for Sport ("CAS") / International Council of Arbitration for Sport ("ICAS") https://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-information/frequently-asked-questions.html https://www.tas-cas.org/en/icas/code-statutes-of-icas-and-cas.html

Do the WRJFA clubs remain optimistic they will be participating in the Pyramid for 2019/20 or are our hopes being well and truly scuttled by the ongoing problems in the East Region? A press briefing from TJ might not go amiss at the moment. Part of it might read as follows: "Although the new format could be in place for the start of next season, Johnston feels the earliest any pyramid structure could happen would be the summer after next." "Johnston said. "You would probably need to get the winners of the East and West Regions and the winners of the South of Scotland and East of Scotland to go into a play-off and meet the bottom sides in the Lowland league." Thes above is the 2013 version from The Herald - it will represent an absolute tragedy if this same patter is going to be used again some six years on. The lack of progress and the lack of communication on this very important issue is very depressing. Communication is the key in keeping member clubs up to date and on board.

This is perhaps for the better as the EoSL would take quite a hit if the league lost part of its recent tranche of Junior clubs. On the other hand I can't help feeling a little disappointed that a primary gateway for progressive East and West clubs will not be opened for 2019/20. However, it does enable proper planning for the launch of LL2 for 2020/21 season. An independent WoSL has lost much of its lustre and I suppose that the SJFA can feel a little smug that the initiative appears to have been smothered by the ongoing Pyramid negotiations when at the start of the season it was a near certainty to be launched in one form or another.

Eyemouth have a strong heritage which should not be forgotten at this difficult time: Honours East of Scotland League Champions: 1954–55, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1970–71 Scottish Qualifying Cup South Winners: 1952–53, 1958–59, 1959–60 East of Scotland (City) Cup: 1950–51, 1957–58 East of Scotland Qualifying Cup: 1953–54, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1958–59, 1971–72 King Cup: 1958–59 Scottish Border Counties FA Challenge Cup: 1954–55 South Supplementary Cup: 1954–55 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyemouth_United_F.C. ? Joined East Of Scotland League 1987-88 East Of Scotland League Division One runner-up Promoted to Premier Division 1990 Relegated to Division One 1990-91 Missed runner-up spot on goal difference 2018-19 Placed in Conference B SEASON LEAGUE P W D L F A P POS 1983-84 E SCOT 30 9 6 15 51 59 24 11/16 1984-85 E SCOT 28 3 3 22 30 104 9 15/15 1985-86 E SCOT 28 7 9 12 56 71 23 9/15 1986-87 E SCOT 34 10 6 18 57 68 26 13/18 1987-88 E SCOT-1 18 11 3 4 46 22 25 2/10 1988-89 E SCOT-P 18 9 2 7 35 43 20 4/10 1989-90 E SCOT-P 18 3 3 12 18 36 9 10/10 1990-91 E SCOT-1 18 9 6 3 37 26 24 3/10 1991-92 E SCOT-1 20 5 2 13 26 56 12 9/11 1992-93 E SCOT-1 18 1 3 14 25 63 5 10/10 1993-94 E SCOT-1 18 1 4 13 16 51 9 10/10 1994-95 E SCOT-1 20 4 5 11 28 43 13 11/11 1995-96 E SCOT-1 22 8 3 11 40 55 27 8/12 1996-97 E SCOT-1 22 1 6 15 30 63 6 * 11/12 1997-98 E SCOT-1 22 2 2 18 18 64 8 12/12 1998-99 E SCOT-1 24 2 5 17 26 74 11 13/13 1999-00 E SCOT-1 20 8 3 9 27 44 27 6/11 2000-01 E SCOT-1 20 8 3 9 30 47 27 7/11 2001-02 E SCOT-1 22 11 2 9 40 39 35 6/12 2002-03 E SCOT-1 22 1 4 17 22 83 7 12/12 2003-04 E SCOT-1 22 2 3 17 21 79 9 12/12 2004-05 E SCOT-1 22 0 2 20 9 88 -1 * 12/12 2005-06 E SCOT-1 20 7 3 10 34 37 24 8/11 2006-07 E SCOT-1 20 7 2 11 28 59 23 9/11 2007-08 E SCOT-1 22 7 2 13 28 56 20 9/12 2008-09 E SCOT-1 22 5 2 15 33 47 17 10/12 2009-10 E SCOT-1 22 4 7 11 37 51 19 10/12 2010-11 E SCOT-1 22 12 4 6 62 49 40 3/12 2011-12 E SCOT-1 24 14 5 5 63 42 47 4/13 2012-13 E SCOT-1 26 15 3 8 70 59 48 5/14 2013-14 E SCOT-1 18 4 3 11 31 53 15 10/10 2014-15 E SCOT-1 28 7 0 21 46 90 21 6/8 2015-16 E SCOT 28 5 2 21 39 115 11 * 15/15 2016-17 E SCOT 20 7 2 11 34 53 23 7/11 2017-18 E SCOT 24 6 0 18 44 114 18 11/13 2018-19 E SCOT-CB SCOTTISH CUP 1951-52 1 EAST FIFE H 0-4 1952-53 1 CELTIC H 0-4 1954-55 1 BUCKIE THISTLE H 2-3 1955-56 1 BRORA RANGERS H 5-1 2 PEEBLES ROVERS A 3-4 1956-57 1 BURNTISLAND SHIPYARD H 3-2 2 DUNS H 3-1 3 NAIRN COUNTY H 0-3 1957-58 1 STRANRAER A 2-6 1958-59 1 STENHOUSEMUIR A 2-5 1959-60 2 ALBION ROVERS H 1-0 3 COWDENBEATH H 3-0 QF KILMARNOCK H 1-2 1961-62 1 MONTROSE H 1-3 1962-63 1 RAITH ROVERS A 0-2 1963-64 1 CELTIC A 0-3 http://fchd.info/EYEMOUTU.HTM

For a groundhopper like myself it is a nice photo. Thanks. Did you do a headcount?

Far better to combine the EoSL and ERJFA into a single cohesive unit which will enable clubs to progress/regress to their own respective levels either within a Premier League or a lower level local district competitions for the diddy clubs. This should deliver a really competitive Fife/West Lothian division that Wee Call seems to aspire to with plenty of away games in the near vicinity. I think some heads need banging together to get rid of the Junior / Senior divide and terminate this debate. The SFA in my view urgently needs some medication to overcome their prolonged impotence in properly addressing the issue.

If the ERJFA retain their 36 clubs and somehow join the SFA Pyramid at Tier 6 for 2019/20 (as promoted by their officials), they would have 39 clubs with the addition of. Breadalbane FC (Aberfeldy) Linlithgow juniors (Amateur club) Bo'ness juniors (Amateur club) Would the ERJFA be enlightened enough to progess with 39 clubs as this would destroy the concept of 2 divisions of 18 clubs? So would we have a flat pyramid of 3 district divisions of 13 clubs with playoffs at the end of the season for progression to the LL Pyramid Playoffs (subject to Licensing restrictions)? OR Retention of the existing structure with Fauldhouse etc retaining their expensive trips to Tayside? Were these issues discussed at the latest ERJFA meeting? There are a number of issues that need to be ironed out including: - the loss of status if there is no Super League and just 2 or 3 weak district leagues - the avoidance of "cricket score" results for teams like Lochee if the league structure is revised on a district basis - the possibility that teams like Fauldhouse will be faced with excessive costs and little income playing matches against Tayside clubs if the Super League is retained. The ERJFA need to make a positive position statement so that clubs can make informed decisions on their future.

I am quite fixated to this thread as are a few other stalwarts. I would love to read some real news on Pyramid progress one way or the other, rather than our daily diet of speculation with related facts, anecdotes and differing opinions. Are there any key dates coming up? Club EGMs etc? League meetings? PWG dates? JC1 spilling the beans? Club officials to their credit seem to be very tight-lipped at the moment. Are they waiting to see who will jump first? Or crucially whether the WRJFA / ERJFA / NRJFA are in or out? Or whether TJ has delivered or reneged on the SJFA's agreed commitment to join the Pyramid? What happens if we get to March 29th and the negotiations / way forward have still not been sorted out? A cliff edge scenario? Or will the issues just carry over into April and early May as they did last year before final determination?

Alan I think you are are being a bit unkind to JC who did "like" my post. It is a difficult decision for the Hoose Committee to make but this time they are not being pushed into a corner but have plenty of time to fully assess all the pros and cons. I think the finances will be the crucial issue with the Centenary coming up.

Suggestions that suit the finances of fauldhouse utd and local games that I would be happy with Must be joining the EoSL then JC if you want local games and improved finances from the bigger attendances.

I diasagree. Once the WRSJA are in the Pyramid the desire for promotion will take on a momentum all of its own (as it did in the Highland League at Tier 5 despite initial opposition). The WRSJA clubs will be very strong - much stronger than any the ERJFA can field. Are you trying to pomote EoSL teams to return to the ERJFA?

If we believe some of the fodder that we have been fed re the New Pyramid there would be a Junior Playoff and a Senior Playoff: ERJFA v WRJFA (Juniors) EoSL v SoSL (Seniors) If that is the case the ERJFA route would be much more difficult road to follow and any current EoSL club would be heading for troubled waters if they thought they had found an easier route to the Lowland League.

Will TJ be attending the ERJFA meeting to give his members an update on the PWG negotiations and to demonstrate a keen desire to keep his members on board? Or will he cover the matter by email? Or will he just do nothing?

The clash of Junior Cup matches and the Senior Pyramid fixture list is a real issue when the Junior clubs move over to the new structure. The Junior Cup in this new world in my view might be more successful if revamped as a Summer competition played May to August (with a break in June) - with the final programmed as a firm commitment for the end of August. If not I am afraid that we may need to hit the delete button on this great competition. It should be open to all clubs in the higher echelons of the Non League Pyramid. Any league fixtures that need to be postponed because of the Junior Cup matches in August can be quickly reprogrammed.

What is the latest position re the Lowland / Highland divide? Has the suggestion that the Highland Boundary Fault line may be used to accommodate the East Juniors been binned?

Of course the SJFA is a currently a national association - one that undoubtedy retains some clout at the moment. However to enable the SJFA to be seamlessly absorbed into the Senior Pyramid, our esteemed leader will need to either "eat humble pie" or "fall on his sword" and accept that the SJFA will be working at a lower level in future (the same level as the East of Scotland FA) and therefore cannot expect any special benefits or privileges. If the SJFA (the expanded Scottish Midlands Region FA) and EoSFA are recognised as being at the same level from 2019/20 onwards, I do not see a problem. However if the SJFA have a very different agenda which has not been divulged I can foresee all sorts of issues arising. The above is my logic Burnie_man - in other words not to alienate but to asbsorb and develop.

I am coming around to the thought of the Scottish Junior Football Association being in the Senior Non League Pyramid next season. Using some of Kilbowie Benches logic I can suggest that the SJFA are not really a proper national association as they do not cover large swathes of the country incuding much of the Scottish Highlands and none of the Scottish Borders etc. Some might argue that the SJFA for historical reasons is in reality an "expanded Scottish Midlands Region organisation" with extensions from the Central Belt into Tayside and Aberdeenshire In the Senior Pyramid next season the SJFA will be on the same level as the East of Scotland FA and should be treated similarly in my view. We should all be one family with no triumphalism or illusions of grandeur. The Juniors/Seniors bickering should be well and truly laid to rest.

Where? Please provide some properly referenced justification rather than make bland statements like this. You do not provide any proper evidence to justify the Junior cause.