Airdrie Minded
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Posts posted by Airdrie Minded
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I thought it was common knowledge that PH used a few people as a front for the '10' we speak of. Witch hunting anyone is never going to sort this. I don't think the trust has ever spoken for me but day by day this becomes more and more the case, if they want to sort things and talk then for me they are going 100% the wrong way about it.
To be clear, the point around PH front money and the consortium of 10 absolutely did not come from the Trust. That was said to me by someone else in attendance, I wasn’t aware of it so noted it here. The point around 10 members all with an equal share was on the Trust slides but not to go after anyone, just outlining a timeline etc. I just found it interesting in that we were sold something that could never actually have existed.
If I was to summarise last night in one point it’s the Trust don’t know why the club aren’t speaking but they are looking to reopen discussions. It wasn’t a witch hunt it was confusion and an appeal to talk.
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My thoughts
Thought the trust has put in 20k. Above says 10k. Was it over two instalments, did they pay on time?
Was Colin Elliot always going to keep his shares or was he going to sell them anyway?
surely PH couldn’t buy JB shares in secret?? Thought I remember a post that legally the consortium had to offer to buy all shareholders out due to number TW had??
Did Bobby Watson not walk away due to health? Is there not a picture of him on social media making a presentation on Saturday??? Doesn’t seem to have walked away in disgust to me
surely if the model was for 10 equal shares it was not hard to do this unless some people didn’t do as they said. Even if PH put more money up for others would this not have been obvious from the outset?? Surely obvious that his brother would back him and give him 2 votes straight away!!
You already posted your thoughts??? I’ve just replied!? Are these new thoughts?? Did you mean to post under a different account maybe?? I need my bed and I’m not the person to be answering this as I don’t know the answers!
Maybe it was £20k and it’s my error (don’t mean to mislead anyone, playing back what I remember). There were two payments though for two transactions. Share certificate given for one and not the other.
No idea re Colin Elliot but suggestion tonight was it was a short term thing and this was always clear. Ask him! Do you know him?
Why not re Ballantine shares? Why could he not approach Ballantyne and buy them? I honestly don’t know. If JB wanted to sell and he wanted to buy then...?
No idea re Bobby Watson. He’s gone but and the ill health was never confirmed. I heard Ian McMillan isn’t in the boardroom anymore. Is that true? Mentioned to me at weekend.
Agree re his brother but with a consortium of 10 why would that be an issue. It seems it’s all his allies left and everyone else has gone though. Youd need to ask those involved how it went down. PH owns the shares under of a seperate company and that company owns the majority shareholding in l the club. No one clocked it? Trusted him at face value? Ask them.
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I live outside and away from Airdrie now for many years and have been looking on with interest over the last few months. Before anyone slates the new poster, I am only now registering as I can see some issues and think perhaps there are some easy answers. Also feel we should all pull together and not argue over trivia
it seems to me that there are various issues at the moment but here are some basic questions from a distance
1. Consortium advertised 10 Airdrie minded business men with equal share. Where were they? And if everyone is so anti the stadium owners then was it not obvious that if they put the most money in they would be in control? Does this mean that some of the 10 pulled out or some people didn’t stump up enough cash, thus leaving a shortfall that stadium put in to increase share???
2. People talking about sponsorship being lost. See that Holemasters have just reinvested for more money and taken more, which must mean more cash injection. The away strip was done on a raffle so income never guaranteed and better in my opinion to get someone to pay for it outright. What sponsors are we going to lose?? Like any club the main strip sponsorship is the important one and that is now sorted?
3. To me it seems there is a very different discussion to be had about supporters and the trust. Seems people talk about the trust being the supporters. Are most supporters in the trust? How many members do they have? Also how many people turned up tonight? I don’t see them hand in hand and therefore would wonder what numbers of the fans would not go back. For me results matter, if the team are winning then people will go.
4. On the trust raising money, what do they do to raise money for the club? I get the money put in for shares as this goes to the club but most of what I see over recent times is money being generated for outside charities. Do they still pay for youth players? Is the kit aid money still put in(although that just paid for tickets handed out so no direct money to club(PR yes). I know in the previous years money has been given directly to JB to balance the books but we are not there now and the current arguments are with the new owners so what happened in the past is past!!
5. Commercial manager issues. There seems to have been silence on this. What was the role when the new owners came in and was the job done well? Saw many times where social media was advertising match sponsorship available. Is this not something the commercial manager should have sold? Main sponsorship was already agreed, away strip was by raffle, so nothing there. I did see club partners that had discounts for season ticket holders. How much does that generate, will they not renew? I know there was merchandising money, did that go
to the club or the trust?
Not trying to be controversial just making some basics observations and asking many questions!!!!
going to read notes from tonight and see if there are any answers or more questions!!
Is this aimed at me?? Must be as I think I’m the only one that’s summarised today’s meeting anywhere. First time poster with an agenda it seems (I say that as my main take away from tonight was why won’t the club get round the table with the Trust - you’ve landed firmly on the clubs side without being there!?) I’ll answer though where I can.
1. No one is anti stadium owners as such. Who said that? The idea was 10 people putting same money in for equal share. That didn’t happen for whatever reason is what I was told. Perhaps the club could explain the make up of the board and who actually owns the shares. There doesn’t seem to have been a plan for certain individuals to put more in. That was the outcome though it if the chat was right tonight. There’s a story here I can’t answer basically but I’m keen to understand what the reality is. Did PH put money in for others and did he always intend to do that so he got more control? Or is that all just crap!
2. I said well done to the club. I see this as a good thing. If I was being inquisitive I would ask what is the Holemaster money for the new deal versus the Holemaster money + away shirt raffle for last year. That gives you if it’s a better deal (not trying to be a dick here but that’s a basic question to ask rather than just accepting “record deals” - the club can clarify that). Income wasn’t guaranteed you’re right, but the actual figure is known (to the club) so not sure your point
3. No idea how many went, didn’t count. Decent turn out I’d say though. The Trust aren’t the supporters, completely agree. They are a Trust made up of supporters. I don’t think they promote themselves as anything different. Agree with team wins people go. Concern is team don’t win, people don’t go. Tough league next year and gates aren’t great for launching full time football. Again basic stuff - Wotherspoon lost interest and we nearly went to the wall. Could happen with this lot. Btw no mention of that tonight, but I just worry about that.
4. £150k, something like that, was figure given re Trust payment to club. Given current circumstances not sure how much other cash will be handed over at the moment! FFIT club mentioned as having brought in £8k in past few months? Decent. Key here would be Trust and club working together to utilise stadium. Host an event, bring people to stadium, spend money. I thought the Trust thing or real value comes in promoting the club. Also £10k kit aid I guess?
5. What has the commercial manager got to do with the Trust meeting? Why should we be talking about it? This reeks of agenda at this point, maybe I’m not in the know here as details weren’t publicised but it didn’t seem to end well. And I’m not in that line of work but jesus mate, selling out Airdrie, seats/hospitality/advertising boards is an impossible task I’d imagine given the absolute shite on the park! How do you get folk to watch that garbage! No idea of numbers, sales v previous years, or role of who did what in terms of getting sponsors etc. That will give you your answers. Holemasters were there prior to the takeover so who knows (so was Commercial manager but? And Ballantyne? So... dunno ) no idea re club partners, again ask the club I guess. Merchandise money went to the club I think. Mention made it was gifted and included within their accounts?0 -
I was part of the Trust. I've a number of friends still involved, so I'm not taking sides but think a bit of balance in argument is needed. I can see some of the points where the Club / Stadium company are coming from.
The Trusts aim is to support and promote the club. There has always been an element of helping charities where we could. But over the last couple of years there has been a big swing to the charity side. I'm not going to name the individual charities as their names shouldn't be brought into this but the list keeps growing and growing. Don't get me wrong these are some great causes. But the burden of most of the Trust activities fall on the Stadium Company / Football Club. I get that the Club get goodwill from helping but at the end of the day the Stadium and Football Club are a businesses and they need some financial gain to survive and grow.
Also I think people need to take into account. Unlike our previous board, the directors we have now are from the town, as are obviously the Trust. When people bad mouth folk whether through Chinese whispers, gossips or grasses it has a way of getting back to the other side.
I don't believe the majority of the people involved in the Trust or Club want a war. The bad blood and antics aren't going to do anyone any good. People don't need to like one another but do need to find a way to work together. If anyone can't they maybe need to think about removing themselves from the equation.
With regards to the charity involvement, I’m sure the club doesn’t suffer financially from it. Sat on way home and working it through as nothing else to do, the Trust paid the club 10k in 2016 I think and Maggies, St. Andrews and Trust benefitted. The year after, Holemasters paid for Maggies and the hospice to benefit (again I think, feel free to correct me). This year, was it not reported a local benefactor paid a five figure sum for 3 charities to benefit? There’s other donations etc in there too right enough. But surely the club and stadium has benefitted from these associations (based on payments and the events) - not lost money. And the whole charity thing has also seen the profile of the club raised massively. How do you place value on that?
Do all board members live in the town btw? Don’t think PH does
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Here’s my take of the key points. There was other stuff talked about.
Key points:
1. PH actively engaged Trust prior to take over. Trust played a key part in helping put pressure on Wetherspoon. PH worked with Trust and DFC to engineer the takeover.
2. The Trust are due an additional £10k worth of shares and the club appear to have reneged on that deal (this is in addition to the original £10k of shares that was bought by the Trust). Money was passed to the club but no shares were passed over. There is documented evidence (email trail) of the agreement to sell to the Trust.
3. The Trust buying Colin Elliot’s shares appears to tie in with a further souring of the relationship. However this wouldn’t have impacted the overall “power” or control
4. PH bought the Ballantyne shares without advising other shareholders (this was told to me)
5. Trust view is that the community work they undertake helps raise the brand, helps breed new supporters and generates a source of income for the club
6. Trust donated £142k to the club since 2002. FFIT club for instance raised £8k approx recently - this goes straight to club. Not sure this is a Trust hatchet job?
7. Trust will continue to focus on community. Want to do that working with the club.
8. The Trust ARE co-owners. They own shares. They’ve put £20k in.
9. Trust don’t understand why the conflict exists. Want to resolve it
10. The Board members left are allies of PH. No one else appears to be left.
11. Trust were told not to use club crest to advertise camps by the club.
12. Trust have continued activities as normal in support of club (lottery, FFIT etc).
13. The Advertiser approached the Trust for comment about the football camps. The Trust did not contact them. 2 separate camps being advertised led them to ask the question.
14. Walter Spiers advised they (him, Gavin, Stuart Shields and Bobby Watson) walked away as their main driver was the club, supporters and community. Priority of those left is now money. He sees the key for them is funding the stadium. The club is just a vehicle to allow this to happen.
15. The Trust speaker stated they would not be advocating a boycott.
I also heard a rumour amongst those that were there that not all original consortium members put money in as planned. What happened was PH covered their share (so, for the guys on his side) effectively leaving him as the man in control. The original vision of everyone putting the same amount of money in and having equal say didn’t happen as he put more money in than others - don’t know if by design or he was let down. The consortium ‘vision’ was therefore that, just a vision, a concept. And although we all bought into it, it never existed. I’ve not tracked it through on companies house but it’s another company holding shares in the club of which PH is 100% shareholder in? Something like that. Maybe rubbish. Diamond Dave can likely help.
It would be good to hear from the club now. The Trust have stated they want communication. We should want an update.
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Yes, I'm sure there's a conspiracy going on against the Trust manifesting itself in kids football coaching. Or more likely is that there IS a breakdown in communications between the trust and the club/stadium and the football camp stuff is an irrelevant sideshow.
Do you think Walter Spiers, Stuart Shields and Gavin Spiers amongst others walked away because of football camps? And that had nothing to do with the Trust so does that not make you think?
The sponsorship deal is great, kudos to the club for that. I’d like to know if it’s sufficient to run the new model the clubs putting in place because from memory the announcement didn’t outline that. You’ve stated Paul Hetherington doesn’t like to lose money, I presume you’re right. However how is he not going to do that based on full time football on gates on 650/700. I don’t think the sums add up (we’ve lost a fortune this season pt I’d guess btw). Especially when he’s chased away consortium members who were assisting with funding. And what happens if we don’t go straight up? So lots of questions to be answered away from football camps. The Wotherspoon era tells us we should be asking them, whether that’s the Trust or everyone in general. Not tinfoil hat stuff, just observational.
l’m the same - fed up with all this shite and just want to support the team but pushing the Trust away and the other resignations is strange. You’ve picked a side, that’s fine, I’d like to hear both sides of the argument without just assuming based on little knowledge.2 -
So, it’s not Stephen quoted in the article. However that aside, and ignoring the potential time difference between ‘events’, you’ve taken “last ditch attempt to talk and be involved in club” in that article to equate to the “hatchet job” Diamond Dave referred to as being one and the same?? Okay.0 -
I always remember getting details of who the consortium was and more importantly how it would all work together was like getting blood out a stone. The questions were asked at the time. Am I surprised we are where we are, not really because these things very rarely work like that. Those who hold the most money/investment have the biggest say.
Those that were visible seem to be those that are now gone. The others were aligned with PH. PH now seems to be running the show and those others remain silent. I wonder if the picture painted at the outset was as clear or accurate as we were led to believe (on the PH side). A good question for Thursday.
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I think we need to remember the proposed governance structure that was originally presented to us. which we all bought into and which was originally put in place. A consortium of individuals, each putting money in and working together for the greater good of the club. Money was put in by a number of individuals - including the Trust if I recall correctly. For whatever reason though it seems a number of them have been pushed aside leaving one man with all the power.Maybe I have a short memory, but back in what is generally considered the "good old days" we had an extremely autocratic board that rarely communicated with the fans but got on with the business of running the club (not always successfully but better than recently), the trust and other fan based organisations were very much a product of the desperate years since. Perhaps the current board want to go back to the old way of running the club without fans involvement (they may use the word "interference"). Provided that they succeed in delivering a good team on the park, positive results and progress up the leagues then let them get on with it.I’m hoping the meeting will give clarity around why this is the case but for me it’s a worry as to how we’ve moved away from the original objective (that PH supported) to what appears now to be one man running the show in such a short space of time.
For me, I am a believer that ownership of the club and stadium should be linked however there is a clear conflict if its one person that has complete control of each. And think of the individuals that have gone versus those still in position - I’m more inclined to trust and have faith in the former.
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This could be interesting. With the community trust bit in the programme yesterday, and the supporters trust meeting, we should have a good idea of what’s been going on. I’d hope there’s a good attendance at this, things of this nature aren’t obviously as exciting as securing 5th place in the 1st division but it is important. The Wotherspoon years showed as that.
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This, I feel like people are far too quick to take sides and we will never know the full story. At the end of the day it's about the team on the park for the supporters and not they did this but they did that.
I think it’s wrong to overlook everything that the Trust has done and not be interested in the current goings on. If they are effectively sidelined by the club (if that’s what’s happening) then it’ll be to the clubs and ours detriment as I expect we’d likely see the end of a number of initiatives such as kids free season tickets. That would be a huge shame and help in taking the club forward in any way.
In addition to the community initiatives, the Trust have also helped finance the club over the years (at particularly precarious points in time) or helped add players/coaching staff (is Prunty not an example of that l, might wrong) so again I think it would be wrong for us not to take an interest in what’s been going on from that perspective.
I completely agree that the product on the park is the most important thing but I think we shouldn’t stop asking questions as to how our club is run or the goings on around it. Sidelining a group that have actively been huge supporters is strange behaviour after all - but your point on knowing the full story is right. Hopefully one of the two, or ideally both, will step forward to explain.
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I’d heard the last camp wasn’t held at the stadium as the Trust were told by the club it was unavailable due to “maintenance work”. It was also on Facebook that the Trust approached the club recently again with a view to holding a camp and the club had advised they couldn’t respond due to the request due to “legal reasons”!?
Interestingly since then the club have announced their own camp at the stadium in May (for which there is a charge) while the Trust have announced a free to all camp that they are running. That’s an amazing gesture
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Aye,always easier to get a bad name .
Aye, rape will do that. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/david-goodwillie-robertson-rape-appeal-116034011 -
Posted elsewhere but as Conroy grinned as he came off, that decided me that he should go now!
He’s here forever (it’ll feel like forever)
https://www.airdriefc.com/squadnews-0803182 -
And David Goodwillie.
Eh no. He’s a fvcking rapist.3 -
Was that not the plan this season? I believed we were cherry picking from the rest of the league. Hasn’t turned out too well. No harm in trying something different as long as finances allow. Probably hooked me in for a season ticket renewal when I was considering giving it a bye next season.
It worked for Arbroath.3 -
It's just a guess. That said, it would be a typically Airdrie thing to do to finally put together a team in 2019 -20 which would have been a strong contender this season but which struggles against teams like Falkirk/QotS/Thistle.
You’ve summed it up perfectly there!!0 -
I'm not suggesting it's a likely explanation but, while we could have achieved a play-off spot by spendng a bit more money, we've failed to establish the necessary foundation to go on and win promotion. We would have effectively wasted money for no real benefit, when we could have held on to it to support a run at promotion next season, a point at which we would hopefully be less constrained by the baggage of the bad choices we made this season.
I don’t agree but see the logic and hope you’re right. I think the increased income would warrant going up now. The noise was we need out this league ASAP. I don’t think we’re in a position to pick and choose and we run the risk of wasting money by bringing in poor full time players in a futile effort v eg Thistle.0 -
I'm gonna wager that was used to consolidate debt...
Yep, agree. As I said before, the lack of spending in January would suggest that. After all, why bank it to try and achieve the play offs next year when we could have spent some and achieved the playoffs this year. No idea where the money for this hybrid set up is coming from.
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Maybe Diamond Dave will enlighten us......
And confirm where/who banked the Celtic money?0 -
I’m going to look at this as a positive and give credit for what looks like an ambitious move. We’re hopeless at the moment and this will hopefully make us better! However on the back of the Wotherspoon experiment, which was only a few seasons ago, I’m also going to question how we pay for this (as everyone should) and worry about the associated risks.
Our gates and sponsorship income will be down. We’ve got a high wage bill as a starting point due to the 2yr contracts we gave to part time players who aren’t good enough and therefore will be difficult to shift. We have one person now running the club after the fall out amongst the Board. 600 people through the gates won’t cover the bills for (some) full time football. So we’re reliant on that one person continuing to stump up. As we were with Wotherspoon, a man who changed his mind mid-experiment.
I’m not privy to any inside knowledge but we backed our new manager in January - who was pushing for promotion - with 3 young loan players and a guy from the juniors. And that was after getting Celtic in the cup. If we actually had money I’d suggest that was the time to spend a bit (we’d have made the playoffs with 2 or 3 solid additions). So I’d question if we did/do have any. However if they (he) say it’s there then fine I guess - some more detail would be nice but as the sums don’t add up (the ‘post Wotherspoon’ Ballantyne months demonstrate that).
However also as a reality check (as others have pointed out elsewhere) we have QOS, Morton, Thistle, Raith or Falkirk (or potentially two of them) in the league next year. Clubs of a bigger current standing with likely more money to spend. We went part time for a reason - the Board were very clear why and explained the advantages. This current model was heralded as being the best fit. It wasn’t stumbled into. Why therefore abandon it so quickly in such challenging circumstances? Why not just do it better like Arbroath or Alloa. After all what standard of full time players can we actually attract?
As I said, I hope it works. If it gives us an edge, if we get our signings right, if the manager steps up then great. We all want success. If it doesn’t, I’m not sure we can come back again from what the potential fall out may be.1 -
Also, I meant to say earlier but has it been confirmed by Dougy, the club or anyone else that he's left his commercial manager position? (And I don't mean by the usual attention seekers on Facebook). Because if not it seems a bit off to be discussing his employment situation and the circumstances surrounding it, as has been the case for the last page or two. Maybe give it a rest.
He has definitely left the club.0 -
The irony of coming on here, throwing accusations that appear to have little substance and yet still accuse others of looking to hurt the club at the same time is staggering. However if we are (all?) right in thinking that Diamond Dave is linked to the club then it’s actually really alarming and speaks volumes as to what he thinks of us as supporters.
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Why would you need to apologise?
Well, just in case my hunch it’s PH is wrong.0
The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond
in Scottish Championship General Chatter
Posted
I’m really not! Nice first post.