Don Kneelcaster

Top Four prediction for tier two in 2023/24: 1. ICT 2. Dundee Utd 3. Thistle 4. Queens Park

Page 1876, the number which represents the year PTFC came into existence, 147 years ago.

Last game of league season at Dundee United! Mmmmm!

Why the manufacturers don’t use classic strips from the past as their template, as Thistle’s did last season, I don’t know. But, at least it’s a chance to save money for the discerning fan!

I was recently writing on here about my distaste for a lot of contemporary football shirts and I used Celtic as an example of a club who usually don’t stray too far away from their classic green-white hooped home shirt. Then, lo and behold today comes the latest 2023/24 offering! This looks perhaps the most leftfield creation Celtic have ever signed up to for a home strip in their history. To me, with its bubbly (described as stained glass) hoops which look as if they are rhythmically swaying about, you wonder if the creator was perhaps using 1960s acid-dropping psychedelia as the catalyst for this effort.. Either that or they’d been imbibing some sort of hallucinogenic mind-altering chemical themselves! What a disaster-described as ‘a modern twist’ in the sales blurb! ‘Twisted’ certainly!

Craig Brown was a successful Scotland manager, but he was also a quietly spoken thoughtful man and dealt with the job in a similarly low-key matter of fact way. He was the international team’s longest serving manager too, which probably says it all. Serious and accomplished when it came to explaining things to the media, he also had a sense of humour, with a twinkle in his eye at times (which I picture when I think of him!) Not a ‘big’ personality, as some managers, he left it to his teams to do the ‘talking’ on the park. He said, “I hope I will be remembered for (through his teams) playing the game fairly and properly.” (Not something that lots of managers are most concerned with nowadays, unfortunately!) Condolences to his family and friends on their loss. DH

They can put up as many placards, signs and banners as they like but no Thistle supporter (or likely any other football fan) will refer to it as “The Wire Stadium at Firhill”. The only ones who will are going to be the Jagzone match commentator and pundit, anyone on the PA system at home matches and any PTFC staff, interviewed by the media. The nonsense surrounding sponsorship gets more ridiculous by the year. But, of course when cash is at stake…..!

When you look at the size of the crowds attending Thistle, Thirds and Clyde matches back then, it was a good time for football.

Yes, well I was thinking of my own personal awareness of those six Glasgow sides from the very early sixties. My dad was the archetypal neutral and he’d open his fixture booklet and say, “Now, I wonder what would be a good game to go to on Saturday.” In those days, there was usually two or three games going on in Glasgow. Before, I became a Jags fan, I’d been to lots of different grounds watching five of those six Glasgow sides (but not Queens Park.) ”Losing one more wouldn’t hurt.” I felt for a couple of Third Lanark supporters I knew back in the day when the ‘Hi-Hi’ folded. And my uncle had been a keen supporter before he emigrated. When you’re team gets relegated, that can be upsetting and unpleasant but, when they disappear altogether, that’s something else. I met the recognised authority on Third Lanark Athletic Club, Bert Bell, once at the National Scottish Football Museum, at Hampden Park. A very interesting man to talk to and unlike perhaps some other ex-Thirds fans, he never started to follow any other club after his team disappeared. At the time, the ‘Save The Jags’ campaign began in the late nineties, it looked as if Thistle might be the next Glasgow football casualty. I somehow don’t think any Jags fans back then at that time would have thought “losing one more (Glasgow club) wouldn’t hurt”!

I was at this match and it stood out because, back then, we had a genuine living, breathing rivalry between ourselves and the Bullywee. Also, the emphatic scoreline was more than a a bit of a pleasant surprise. Matches between the two clubs were usually much closer back then. In fact Clyde reached third place in the top tier in the later 60s and would have been playing in Europe in the Inter Cities Fairs Cup (equivalent of UEFA Cup), had it not been for the fact that Rangers took that spot as only one team was allowed to enter that competition per city. That was very harsh on Clyde. Back then, I wouldn’t have cared, but now, in a more mellow more charitable frame of mind, I think it was really bad luck. In 1969, Clyde would feature v Celtic in a Scottish cup semi. Clyde, at that time were a very decent top tier side but circumstances outwith their control, combined to make things progressively more difficult for them as time went on. Now, they’re in the fourth tier, just above the non-league clubs and I certainly don’t envy them. But, thinking back to the fact Third Lanark disappeared off the Scottish football map completely the year before-in 1967-makes anyone realise, when their team is near the bottom, nothing is guaranteed. Now, I hope they survive and continue as one of the six original Glasgow sides, only five now being in existence.

Well, you’re half right!

We have to hope then-you say you are “convinced” -that this “completely different set of people” ultimately do things differently than the previous set of people. But, at the moment, we are NOT a fan-owned club in line with St Mirren or Motherwell so until or unless that’s achieved, we have to … wait and see. You seem to have a lot of ‘certainty’. Any, thoughts about ‘when’ genuine fan ownership (on a par with St Mirren or Motherwell etc) might be finally achieved?

Yes, but the key words are “turned out to be.” For a long time, Thistle fans and just about everybody else who knew something about it, expected JLow, 3BCs, The Thistle board to give the shares to TJF. Then later after further negotiations with a new TJF board there was hope rather than expectation. But, finally they were given to another group which popped up out of nowhere which had never even been mentioned. Then, there was shock combined with anger, a sense of betrayal and yes, a profound belief amongst the fans, TJF etc we had been lied to. My feeling overall surrounding raising this issue here, is how can we stop what ultimately happened previously, happening again? TJF have a lot of money which is being paid as subscriptions by PT fans who are members of TJF. The club and individuals who are not necessarily members of TJF want that money, which has been offered by TJF at a time when PTFC is in a financial pickle. But, when money is available and desperately needed, sometimes people will say or/and agree to anything easily to get it. My point is, how can we be certain we aren’t having ‘the wool pulled over our eyes’ a second time?

“This model is far from maturity and it isn’t (as) tidy…..…fan ownership promise……..we are…a(n) partner” Yes, I understand you are “convinced” that those on the….board are serious about delivering on the fan ownership promise, but didn’t you previously at one time think the same about J Low and that previous board? And that came as quite a shock at the time. Of course, the present board want the JFL subscription money, but they haven’t delivered true fan ownership of PTFC yet, which is my point. You believe they will. We will see in due course. In the meantime…..

The Jags Foundation (TJF) was brought into being for a specific purpose. This was to be the democratically-run, accountable PTFC supporters organisation, which would be the repository for the 55% majority shareholding (given by the late Colin Weir) to allow fan ownership of the club. Since it was first instituted, a lot of water has gone under the bridge but the model which we currently have does not (to me) conform to the genuine models of fan ownership seen at eg St Mirren FC or Motherwell FC or other fan owned clubs. Yet, we know (because they’ve told us) that TJF has earmarked large amounts of TJF subscription funds to be given to PTFC now and in the future. Why was this money, promised by TJF/given to the club-supporters’ money-not offered conditionally on the club becoming a genuinely fan-owned club on the lines of those other fan-owned clubs? After all, previously, when J Low turned down TJF as a repository for the shareholding, she said, “The club neither wants or needs your money.” (And the subtext was , ‘Neither do we want you!’) Now we know that the part of her statement about “need” was false, but surely the supporters still seek what was wanted at the very start of the process, ie genuine fan ownership. And, having this money to offer, surely provides the way to achieve this. Yet, no changes are being made (as far as I’m aware) to the current fan ownership model (if you can call it a ‘model’).

In his latest (10 min.) interview on the PTFC site, manager Kris Doolan once more gave an articulate, convincing account of himself, this time summarising the current ‘state of play’ (pun intended) at the club, regarding signings, pre-season training etc etc. Looking relaxed and happy, he always sounds as if he knows what he’s talking about and is an excellent communicator, with a calm, controlled way of putting across his ideas and opinions.

The news that Dean Cornelius recently turned down the terms offered to stay at Premiership club, Motherwell, to move instead to….English fourth tier club, Harrogate Town….says something, (but it’s probably not good!) about the state of Scottish football. Cornelius was no fringe player, having played 46 times for the Steelmen last season. (I recall some years ago in similar circumstances, up-coming Stephen O’ Donnell, left Thistle to join lower league, Luton Town. Of course, we now know Luton were at the start of a trajectory which would ultimately see them arrive where they are now-in the top tier, down south.) But, Cornelius’s move sends out a rather negative message and it should make Scottish fans sit up and take a reality check on where the game in Scotland currently is located for many teams.

You make a fair point. I regard myself as ‘radical’ and even left-field on a number of things but where football strips are concerned I am on the traditional ‘wing’ of football supporters’ opinions. Real Madrid, even more than eg Leeds United have stuck to all white, (without the tinkering). Barca always used to be a particular shade of blue and red vertical stripes-now they have joined the ‘rest’ in Messi-ing around with their design! In their case, I respected the fact they would not use sponsors’ names on the front of the shirt for many years-but of course they reneged on that intention eventually. Juve always wear black/white vertical stripes and never change that ‘identity’. The main raison d’etre for issuing new strips every 12 months is to make money for manufacturers and clubs. That’s the driver and of course changing them radically, means many fans don’t want to be left with ‘last year’s model’ which is deliberately rendered ‘out of date’! This is the corporate ‘persuader’ for getting many people to replace mobile phones, cars, clothing etc etc. This is a modern phenomenon in our time, which didn’t exist to that extent in the past. But, if you want to watch your team play you see them wearing a particular strip and in the past, you looked forward to them running on to the field wearing the ‘uniform’ with which you associated them-the well-known strip which was a crucial part of their identity. Today, that notion has simply been jettisoned in favour of ‘other requirements.’

The biggest problem with changing strips annually is when you get a good one, nowadays, you know it will be gone 12 months later. The version used in the season just completed is a case in point. Many fans, particularly those of a certain age-ie ‘the oldies’ see that design (shown in picture left) as the archetypal classic PTFC strip. It was the one used most throughout all Thistle’s history and it was so good to see it displayed in 2022/23. I personally would prefer to see the club always wear that basic design, but with peripheral changes, (to accommodate) the annual new strip changes. I am of the view that classic designs are the ones that best show the team in a particular context. That is to say, some teams never really mess about with their design very much. A good example is Celtic. The colours are always green/white which is often the way with many clubs in terms of colours, (though a few add ‘rogue’ colours eg orange in a recent Liverpool shirt!). But, Celtic ALWAYS use green and white hoops. These might be thicker or thinner but always hoops. On the other hand, some teams eg Thistle use vertical stripes, hoops, mainly yellow etc etc, and this is something I don’t particularly like. Keeping the same colours, same basic design is what establishes a club’s identity, which should stay constant and unchanging IMO. I feel those who make the decision regarding strips at Firhill feel the only constant needs to be the red and yellow colours, with black. And, just about any design is okay so long as these colours are used. This year we’ve got a ‘first’ (for the shirt) with red, yellow and black being used in equal quantities in a vertically striped shirt. Previously, the main colours have always been red and yellow with black (a powerful colour) as a subsidiary colour. Ie for collar or cuffs etc but used much less than the main two colours. As the reader will have guessed, I don’t really like this year’s home strip, but then this has been true of many Thistle home strips in the past too! I am aware that I only speak for myself and many younger fans enjoy the thrill of seeing and wearing a new ‘creation’ (every year) and of course, the clubs and manufacturer love selling lots of them! But, perhaps, as a compromise, to reflect the views of more fans, Thistle as a supposedly ‘fan-owned club’ could consider giving supporters some choice over the question of strips which the team wears. That, at least would maybe please more supporters-incl. perhaps (?) ‘dinosaurs’ like me-though of course, “You can please some of the people, some of the time” but you can’t please “all of the people all of the time.” Ie those famous phrases! Yes, I agree with them! But, I still prefer, what to me, is the classic PTFC strip!

TJF didn’t reveal the financial situation right away to fans. It came out after the season ended and was a shock to add to the disappointment of the Play-Off result. TJF said after doing so that they didn’t know how fans would respond to that news, (and seemly that was why it wasn’t revealed straight away) but had been surprised and delighted by the amount of support and donations given after the news broke. PTFC are a private company with shareholders. Twice the supporters have seemingly saved a private company with donations because of the goodwill and even love that fans have for their team. Yet, the previous board chose to play fast and loose with those same fans, holding back and then finally gifting the shares to an unaccountable and undemocratic small group of supporters rather than the newly formed group-TJF-set up for the purpose. Eventually, that original board packed their bags and departed, after first telling TJF they “didn’t want or need your money” and claiming club finances were in good order. Now we know they DID need the money and the financial situation was not good. And, of course, the group which got the shares, when they realised they were on their own with their benefactors departed, now said they wanted to work with TJF and another group. But, ‘genuine fan ownership’ on a par with eg St Mirren, Motherwell and Hearts doesn’t seem to be on the cards yet it seems. Thus, the original group who got the 55% share-holding want TJF money and fans donations, (unsurprisingly) but they haven’t conceded genuine majority fans’ ownership yet, (as far as I can see). Why not, I wonder? I would say that TJF, if it is being asked or expected to contribute large amounts of money to the running of PTFC should be given sole control of that 55% shareholding. Because, it is the supporters’ money through subscriptions to TJF that is helping to fill the ‘black hole’ now and will (presumably) continue to support the club through fans’ subscriptions over the long term.

All the players who have left-Tiffoney, Docherty, Holt and Turner-will be a loss because all distinguished themselves during the Promotion Play-Off games, against the best teams from the Championship (apart from Dundee), plus Ross County from the top tier. And the greater the number of players who jump ship-there may be more-the greater the pressure on manager Kris Doolan, who is tasked with replacing them and building a decent team. Everyone knows it’s better to only have to recruite a few new players, rather than a lot, because it takes time for new players to gel with each other and bed in. Then, there’s also the ‘financial aspect’ with the black hole in Thistle’s monetary sums, which emerged at the end of the season just past. Now, Kris may not be able to afford certain players of whom he had an interest previously, because they’re out of our price range, in terms of wages etc. The future does not look rosy financially at Firhill right now. Just as with ‘Save The Jags’ the people running the club did not level with the fans about what was going awry, until (in the first case) the club nearly went bust and out of business. This time-the second case-at the end of last season it did not result in a ‘Save The Jags’ mark 2, but a lot of emphasis has nevertheless been placed on donations from fans and the Jags Foundation (representing fans and using their subscriptions.) Thus, the way of ‘saving’ the club turned out in essence to be much the same as the first time. (Except of course, that we as fans don’t know how bad things were at the end of 2022/23.) All we know is that the receipts from the Rangers cup game and a loan from a well-off fan stopped the club from defaulting on paying player wages. What will happen in 2023/24 regarding team personal, recruitment of players and any possible promotion push, added to PTFC’s financial stability are very much up in the air and will emerge in due course. But, it would seem we should probably keep our ambitions for 2022/23 on the moderate side. If things go better than that, well, it will be a more than pleasant surprise. But then, at one stage last season, Thistle looked a long way away from being promoted. Then they came exceedingly close. Maybe we WILL all be surprised…again. This is Thistle we’re talking about, after all!

“All Quiet On The Western Front” (German remake)

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