The Wrestling Thread

[stuart.]

How do you have such a good recall of these matches? I used to be right into wrestling but can barely remember a specific match.

Although I am quite good at remembering promos and backstage stuff and little incidents.

Guess it just depends why we watch the product really.

I hate the way they always say WWE Universe.

[DomDom]

How do you have such a good recall of these matches? I used to be right into wrestling but can barely remember a specific match.

Because I watch em about 10 seconds before I post the reviews.

Most of the stuff I'm watching these days, I've never seen before.

Guess it just depends why we watch the product really.

I hate the way they always say WWE Universe.

1) I tend to watch purely for the wrestling side of things, but they can get promos and stuff right too. The latter is why I'm such a fan of The Miz.

2) Absolutely. They have loads of annoying things they say. Calling them performers is another one that irks me. I don't even mind the term entertainer, but calling them performers makes it sound more contrived. I know it IS contrived, but there's got to be believability, and WWE seem to be trying to destroy that.

[stuart.]

See if ITV approached you and asked you to take charge of 2 hours of prime time Saturday night television which they wanted to be a wrestling show, how would you go about it?

[DomDom]

Depends what I have available to me.

[stuart.]

Depends what I have available to me.

A sizeable budget. I am just interested in how you would go about starting it up and making it mainstream. Or whether you would want it to be mainstream? But it would have to be if it was Prime Time ITV.

[DomDom]

Wrestling is already hugely popular enough to go mainstream in the UK, which is why when you aim your UK based shows at kids properly, they show up in their thousands rather than their hundreds.

What you would need for a UK promotion to get into a mainstream situation is ...

1) Good Production Values : Probably the most important part of the lot. If your product looks like shit the minute someone turns on the screen, then you've lost the battle and the war right from the word go, as they'll probably turn over. Proper lighting and a good entrance set up can make the viewer think "oh" and keep watching.

2) Wrestlers that LOOK Good : It's all well having guys that can wrestle, but just make sure that they're not 8 st. soaking wet. You need guys that look tough and that look like they can mess you up. Failing that, they have to have some sort of value. The great thing about the likes of Spud and Bubblegum over here is that they look sympathetic as soon as they come through the curtain, so their lack of size doesn't matter. You need guys to have the look though.

3) Don't Overdo it With Long Matches : The main fanbase is kids, so you can't really hope to put on long matches all of the times. Their attention span simply won't allow that. 10 minutes at the most for any match outside of the main event.

4) Promos At The Start Of Shows : This should be a necessity. You always have to assume that you're going to get first time viewers, so you have the main event wrestlers cut a promo at the start, which gives the chance to explain the goings on that led to what is happening on that night.

There's loads of stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting right now. I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for, but I don't think any other type of wrestling needs to be mainstream.

[RB-Scotland]

Although their production values have dwindled a bit since the relaunch, I think 1PW have as good a chance as anyone of becoming a mainstream UK promotion. For an indy, the emphasis on storylines and character development are a breath of fresh air, and besides the big-name talent, guys like Lionheart and Johnny Moss actually look and carry themselves like wrestlers. The upcoming match between boxer Ryan Rhodes and Darkside also shows an eagerness to get attention from a new audience.

[DomDom]

Although their production values have dwindled a bit since the relaunch, I think 1PW have as good a chance as anyone of becoming a mainstream UK promotion. For an indy, the emphasis on storylines and character development are a breath of fresh air, and besides the big-name talent, guys like Lionheart and Johnny Moss actually look and carry themselves like wrestlers.

Johnny Moss is just one vicious man. Every single thing he does in a wrestling ring looks like it's murdering the opponent. He's intensity on another level. He's like Kurt Angle. Apart from Mossy actually CAN do the technical thing without murdering the credibility of his finishers.

Lionheart has become mammothly popular everywhere he has gone in the UK because he looks, talks and wrestles like a star. He has also been involved in the best Ladder Matches that have taken place in Scotland, and I'd wager that they have been better than ones across the UK. They've certainly outdone ladder matches that happened in 1PW ( although the 1PW one sucked ), 4FW and IPWUK.

Outside of those two guys, you have the likes of the GMPire ( Kid Fite and Liam Thompson ) who are a class tag team, the international imports like Nigel McGuinness, Abyss and Steve Corino.

The production looks a bit dodgy though at times. The To The Extreme setup was hilarious.

[RB-Scotland]

Were you at To the Extreme? They had the right idea, since it was an ECW-themed show, with the big black curtains and that entrance way... but the ring would have made an All-Star promoter blush, and they had a big gap at the side of the brick wall entrance so people on one side could see the wrestler well before everyone else, which was awkward.

I think that if Moss had just a bit more fluidity to his movement in between moves, he'd be in ROH or similar just now. Like you said, his offence looks completely legitimate, and he does have that Angle-factor of looking as if legitimately looking for an opening before and during tie-ups etc.

Of the imports, and although he's maybe not a fully-fledged name talent, I'd put SJK up there as one of the best as well. Genuine star aura about him, and an old-school heat seeking heel. Reminds me of the ROH version of CM Punk. Not to mention Kid Kash who needs to be brought back asap, he tore the house down with his heel antics at TTE, and made a pretty average match into an awesome spectacle just for the sheer hatred directed his way by the fans.

[DomDom]

Were you at To the Extreme? They had the right idea, since it was an ECW-themed show, with the big black curtains and that entrance way... but the ring would have made an All-Star promoter blush, and they had a big gap at the side of the brick wall entrance so people on one side could see the wrestler well before everyone else, which was awkward.

I wasn't there, but I've seen tonnes of pics, many from a distance and many from close up and the setup looked atrocious. I don't think it works with such a small rampway. The setup at the 3YA ( which I was at ) was much better, and they had the whole "gap at the side" thing sorted then as well.

I don't get what happened with the ring. 1PW used to have what was seen as the best on hire ring in the UK and got used for Pro Wrestling NOAH when they came over here and it looked the part.

I think that if Moss had just a bit more fluidity to his movement in between moves, he'd be in ROH or similar just now. Like you said, his offence looks completely legitimate, and he does have that Angle-factor of looking as if legitimately looking for an opening before and during tie-ups etc.

I think the constant looking for things to do even at the start of matches is more of a Bryan Danielson thing. Kurt Angle seems to forget the little things like that. I've always seen Kurt Angle as a glorified brawler, but he is absolutely amazing at what he does. The difference is that Johnny Moss ... every single move he does has a meaning and I don't think fluidity has ever been his problem. He's as fluid as his style allows him to be and when you see some of the guys in ROH right now, it's safe to say that Mossy COULD get a job there. Easily.

Of the imports, and although he's maybe not a fully-fledged name talent, I'd put SJK up there as one of the best as well. Genuine star aura about him, and an old-school heat seeking heel. Reminds me of the ROH version of CM Punk. Not to mention Kid Kash who needs to be brought back asap, he tore the house down with his heel antics at TTE, and made a pretty average match into an awesome spectacle just for the sheer hatred directed his way by the fans.

SJK used to have a special aura about him. Back in his first heel run when he became one of the most popular things in 1PW. Of course, and this is why I never cheer heels, the fans ruined that by cheering every single thing he did, forcing him to turn face, which made the idiot fans complain, and the staleness set in. He's not had the same aura about him ever since, which is a damn shame. This guy had it.

Kid Kash is just amazing. There is nothing that guy won't do for a cheap bit of heel heat and I love him for it. He's one of them guys who can make me go so mental at them before thinking to myself afterwards "I can't believe I reacted like that".

Lets not forget Doug Williams who seems to purely come over to put on a great match and then buggers off back to Japan or something like that.

[Mo Wonderboy]

I know I'm away to sound daft but who's SJK?

[DomDom]

Sterling James Keenan. Former 1PW Champ.

Looks like CM Punk, except with short hair. Not had many bookings in major US indies, but has appeared in ROH a couple of times. He's pretty bland as a wrestler, but has bags of charisma and was super over once upon a time. Maybe now with him chasing the title again, he'll get better again.

[Mo Wonderboy]

Sterling James Keenan. Former 1PW Champ.

Looks like CM Punk, except with short hair. Not had many bookings in major US indies, but has appeared in ROH a couple of times. He's pretty bland as a wrestler, but has bags of charisma and was super over once upon a time. Maybe now with him chasing the title again, he'll get better again.

Gotya...

Seen a bit of his work before but just couldn't figure the acronym out.

Was talking to someone pretty close to FCW online recently and he was raving about a Kris Pavone, so was wondering if anybody had seen any of his work?

[Shuggie_Murray7]

SJK used to have a special aura about him. Back in his first heel run when he became one of the most popular things in 1PW. Of course, and this is why I never cheer heels, the fans ruined that by cheering every single thing he did, forcing him to turn face, which made the idiot fans complain, and the staleness set in. He's not had the same aura about him ever since, which is a damn shame. This guy had it.

Couldn't agree more. I remember when he eventually turned face and it kinda sucked. Some guys have their niche and his is as an awesome heel. He reminds me of Randy Orton in that he can play a heel really well but sucks as a face.

The only problem I had with him was his look. With the long hair and he would wreslte in orange tights etc. His current look fits much better with the short hair and dark colours, plus he has some pretty fucking sweet tattoos. He's by no means the best wrestler I've seen, in fact he's pretty ordinary. But he has the charisma to go further in the business.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Shuggie_Murray7

[RB-Scotland]

Well, TNA is ridiculous.

[DomDom]

You summed that one up rather nicely there. He's a spoiler free recap of the show last night. Apart from the main event recap, which will be filled with spoilers.

X-Division King of the Mountain Match

This match had it's bad points. A couple of spots took ages to set up and looked a bit contrived. On the whole though, this was a spectacular and terrific spotfest between some of the quite clearly more mental members of the X-Division. Matches between these five guys are beginning to get old though, so they need to freshen the division up a wee bit. ****1/4

Shane Douglas vs. Daniels

There are a million things you could do instead of watching this match. You could try out the electric chair. This was just awful. I think I caught swine flu from it. DUD

Angelina Love vs. Tara

Angelina Love hasn't looked better than she did here, and she more than held up her end of the bargain in this match. She's everything that Michelle McCool was trying to be. Tara was frustrating as anything. See how I complain about how RVD used to pose and stall after every move ? Tara decided to take that trait from him. Still, decent match here. **1/2

Raven and Daffney vs. Abyss and Taylor Wilde - Monster's Ball

Take a bow Daffney and Wilde ! It seems that Taylor Wilde, the most useless of all of the Knockouts, has her uses after all. The first half of this match was dull and didn't provide much in the way of excitement, but the second half was mental stuff from all four of these psychopaths. Raven and Abyss brought most of the brutality, while Taylor and Daffney brought the insane spots. Should have been a higher rating with a better first half. **3/4

Matt Morgan vs. Sting

This was just your bog standard run of the mill mid-card match, thrown together to get these two guys on the card. Nothing to write home about. **

Beer Money Inc. vs. Team 3D

The best match between these two teams so far, as both teams were as fluid as I've ever seen them. The action just kept flowing and flowing from start to finish. The British Invasion were awesome on commentary. I absolutely love when these guys get mics. Beer Money Inc. with the gold is a great thing as they're the most fun tag team going in the big two at the moment. ***1/4

TNA Title King of the Mountain Match

Leaving out the shenanigans for this part of the recap. This match was terrible though. Everything in the match just seemed thrown together, and disjointed as hell. Avoid this at all costs. DUD

Now ...

Kurt Angle winning is fine, even if he looks like Tom Hanks from Philadelphia, but Samoa Joe helping him ? It's basically a non-sensical crock of shit and yet more proof that TNA just do shocks for the sake of shocks. I'm sure that some idiots will eat this up with a spoon. If you're one of them then here's a message. YOU'RE A TOOL.

OVERALL

********

Not a bad PPV. A couple of really good matches and some decent stuff going on, but the bad is really really bad.

[RB-Scotland]

It maybe, maybe, maybe would have just about worked had:

1) The commentators not gone crazy selling the fact that the referee DQing Joe for a pre-bell attack was completely unprecedented, and impossible for Joe/Angle to predict.

2) They had, with some subtlety, avoided having Joe/Angle come face to face too often, as opposed to beating the hell out of each other, both in the match and in the TV shows in the build-up.

3) NOT had the MEM, who broke Joe's arm and have tore him apart verbally for months, run out to celebrate with them. Have the MEM act miffed, then Angle could say the MEM is dead and the Nation of Violence is formed... the NoV could then be Angle, Joe and Taz.

As it happened, it was booked as though something a member of the internet wrestling community would write to mock Russo's writing, only with a lack of poles.

Otherwise, pretty decent show... loved Monsters Ball, which was a break-out match for the usually bland Taylor Wilde and was made better by a good storyline going in, and Angelina .V. Tara, which had Angelina and Velvet at their hot, bitchy, heel-ish best.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I have a dream about a nation of violence which features Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, Youmanga with Taz as their manager. Alternatively though I could see a Joe/Youmanga feud.

[The Naitch]

Good news for anyone getting Wrestlemania 25 on DVD - they've edited out the entire Kid Rock segment, though it does leave us with a less than seamless edit into the Diva Battle Royal.

[Sir Kevin Of Kilsyth]

Got the DVD yesterday. Was actually a bit annoyed. Now that its in the books theres no point in moaning about it and I actually wanted to see it agaun as he is one of my favourite artists. No big deal though.

My only gripe about another excellent episode of SmackDown this week was the reaction to Morrisons win over Punk. The commentators called it a huge upset and Morrison looked shocked when he actually won it. If im not wrong Morrison beat Punk clean on 3 consecutive PPVs in 2007 and on a couple of other times on TV.