Roger the cabin boy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, The Wrong Car said: agree regarding the lack of statements, and it's one the the reasons I've got a fairly harsh view on the Trust What’s a lack of statement from John Ward or Dave black got to do with the trust? It’s not them that took hogarth to court. 2 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: I think we can file that one under 'bad lawyer' Aye a football club can’t get a better lawyer than a used-car salesman. Ok. it’s not Arnold Clark they were up against 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: I think we can file that one under 'bad lawyer' I would say bad management. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrong Car Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 5 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said: What’s a lack of statement from John Ward or Dave black got to do with the trust? It’s not them that took hogarth to court. Aye a football club can’t get a better lawyer than a used-car salesman. Ok. it’s not Arnold Clark they were up against If the club is being fairly vague, which they are, it's the Trust's role, both as a fans organisation and a shareholder, to try and clarify it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger the cabin boy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, The Wrong Car said: If the club is being fairly vague, which they are, it's the Trust's role, both as a fans organisation and a shareholder, to try and clarify it “Fairly vague” . thats one way to put it… they’ve said f**k all about the case. Trust weren’t involved in the case and I doubt they were told anything, and were just as clued-up about it as the the average livi fan was at the time of Lord Braid’s opinion last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 10 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: If the club is being fairly vague, which they are, it's the Trust's role, both as a fans organisation and a shareholder, to try and clarify it The Trust is a waste of time. The current interim Trust board should resign en masse given their collective performance over the last few months 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrong Car Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said: “Fairly vague” . thats one way to put it… they’ve said f**k all about the case. Trust weren’t involved in the case and I doubt they were told anything, and were just as clued-up about it as the the average livi fan was at the time of Lord Braid’s opinion last year. Even if you ignore the actions (or inaction) of their Board Representation in 2013, the fact is the Trust is a fairly large shareholder. Not enough to run the club, granted, but they're in a stronger position than the average fan to query and question board-level decisions. If they were unable to, they should have raised that any time between 2013 (when they withdrew their Rep from the board) and 2023 (when they posted on FB about it) 2 minutes ago, Livi said: The Trust is a waste of time. The current interim Trust board should resign en masse given their collective performance over the last few months I did give them the benefit of the doubt, as it seems run by folk who want out. However the shambles of trying to arrange a meeting, or actually joining the Trust, doesn't inspire confidence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 10 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: I did give them the benefit of the doubt, as it seems run by folk who want out. However the shambles of trying to arrange a meeting, or actually joining the Trust, doesn't inspire confidence Publicly they say they want to step aside. Actions speak louder than words and their collective lack of arranging public fans meeting should be a resignation matter. The Livi fanbase does not have a solid core to demand that happens unfortunately. The fans will have to just sit tight until someone on the Trust stops sending out facebook messages along with asking for interim help and on the face of it not really taking any of that help offered. Meanwhile there are multiple court cases ongoing around club ownership. What a shambles all round. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger the cabin boy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: Even if you ignore the actions (or inaction) of their Board Representation in 2013, the fact is the Trust is a fairly large shareholder. Not enough to run the club, granted, but they're in a stronger position than the average fan to query and question board-level decisions. If they were unable to, they should have raised that any time between 2013 (when they withdrew their Rep from the board) and 2023 (when they posted on FB about it) Yeah they should be asking questions, we can agree on something wow… But what does that have to do with a lack of *club* statement on the Hogarth case? Doesn’t look good when you read the Judge’s words… you’d think they’d at least want to do some damage control after the scolding they got. Yeah yeah the trust blah blah… but our Chairman is more than happy to make a statement on the Rankine case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrong Car Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 18 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said: Yeah they should be asking questions, we can agree on something wow… But what does that have to do with a lack of *club* statement on the Hogarth case? Doesn’t look good when you read the Judge’s words… you’d think they’d at least want to do some damage control after the scolding they got. Yeah yeah the trust blah blah… but our Chairman is more than happy to make a statement on the Rankine case. It's not a binary choice - you can be frustrated by the club's lack of statement whilst simultaneously asking the Trust to do more. Glad you've read the Judge's statement, given this entire conversation started with you asking why I believed the club regarding Hogath's use of cheques - it's in the statement For someone who felt the need to create a second account to convey your ideas because other's blocked this one, going "blah blah blah" seems fairly childish. To clarify I blame Martindale for the on-pitch shambles and the negative tone within the club, Ward for losing control of budgets, Stoker for ignoring fraud while a LfL Board Rep, the Trust for being a useless fan forum, and Hogarth and Sumner for the lack of clarity on what they want to actually do with the club. Did I miss anyone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: To clarify I blame Martindale for the on-pitch shambles and the negative tone within the club, Ward for losing control of budgets, Stoker for ignoring fraud while a LfL Board Rep, the Trust for being a useless fan forum, and Hogarth and Sumner for the lack of clarity on what they want to actually do with the club. Did I miss anyone? This is the bug bearer of mine. Many fans seem to think Martindale is only involved downstairs. It's clear from the Lord Braid judgement alone that he is involved both downstairs and upstairs. He likes people to believe its only downstairs. We've heard more from Martindale than we have from the CEO or Chairman on whats happening upstairs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrong Car Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 6 minutes ago, Livi said: This is the bug bearer of mine. Many fans seem to think Martindale is only involved downstairs. It's clear from the Lord Braid judgement alone that he is involved both downstairs and upstairs. He likes people to believe its only downstairs. We've heard more from Martindale than we have from the CEO or Chairman on whats happening upstairs I agree with this, however he's one of many problems 'upstairs'. On the pitch he's much more responsible 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy.1995 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Hopefully,the Trust get this rearranged meeting arranged ASAP.Theve been getting it from all quarters, arguably justified.Its frankly a givin there will be changes to the current incumbents.That being said,its up to supporters who are genuinely interested in change for the betterment of of the club to stand and have their collective voices heard.Its being going on for way too long,and with respect needs to change.Not all average Livi fans are as brain dead as some would have you believe.These court cases are as someone suggested are putting the very future of our club in jeopardy.Real supporters have to stick together if we want to continue our fragile journey. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger the cabin boy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 19 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: Glad you've read the Judge's statement, given this entire conversation started with you asking why I believed the club regarding Hogath's use of cheques - it's in the statement That’s not what I asked. I wondered why the club never made a statement on the hogarth case. 20 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: For someone who felt the need to create a second account to convey your ideas because other's blocked this one, going "blah blah blah" seems fairly childish. Blah blah because you go on an on about the trust and how they should be doing this and that - but they’re not, never have done, and won’t do what you said they should do as a shareholder, so it’s pointless to try and sloppy shoulder the clubs lack of transparency onto them. 20 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: To clarify I blame Martindale for the on-pitch shambles and the negative tone within the club, Ward for losing control of budgets, Stoker for ignoring fraud while a LfL Board Rep, the Trust for being a useless fan forum, and Hogarth and Sumner for the lack of clarity on what they want to actually do with the club. Did I miss anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just now, Troy.1995 said: Hopefully,the Trust get this rearranged meeting arranged ASAP.Theve been getting it from all quarters, arguably justified.Its frankly a givin there will be changes to the current incumbents.That being said,its up to supporters who are genuinely interested in change for the betterment of of the club to stand and have their collective voices heard.Its being going on for way too long,and with respect needs to change.Not all average Livi fans are as brain dead as some would have you believe.These court cases are as someone suggested are putting the very future of our club in jeopardy.Real supporters have to stick together if we want to continue our fragile journey. Quite right the Trust have been getting it from all Quarters. You put your head above the parapet then you have to be prepared for that. i agree with you in that fans need to step forward. Let's drop the emotive language though. We're all real fans. I have seen lots of offers of support to the Trust since the turn of the year via their social media platforms. What we've seen in reality is not a lot of action from those offers of help. My position remains unchanged The current interim Trust board members should resign with immediate effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, Livi said: It wasn't Hogarth's fault that the club didn't put a coherent case together. That was under the watch of Ward and Martindale. It’s not Livingston’s fault either. It’s the job of their legal representatives to build a case, no one else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, mozam76 said: It’s not Livingston’s fault either. It’s the job of their legal representatives to build a case, no one else. Come on - read the judgement it was clear the club management were changing the position throughout the case. i accept the legal team should have considered withdrawing (or whatever the legal term is) from the case earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrong Car Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 10 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said: That’s not what I asked. I wondered why the club never made a statement on the hogarth case. Blah blah because you go on an on about the trust and how they should be doing this and that - but they’re not, never have done, and won’t do what you said they should do as a shareholder, so it’s pointless to try and sloppy shoulder the clubs lack of transparency onto them. Aye, it must be frustrating asking for specific details and only getting general comments in return The club should comment on every case, and I have no idea why they didn't. The Trust did, at one point, have a position of power so I'm not sure why you seem to take folk questioning that as a personal insult? I've not hidden the fact that I hold trusts and fan organisations to a higher standard than outside bidders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just now, Livi said: Come on - read the judgement it was clear the club management were changing the position throughout the case. i accept the legal team should have considered withdrawing (or whatever the legal term is) from the case earlier. I did read the judgement. The case was flawed for many reasons. It was you though who said that the club didnt put a coherent case together. I’m merely pointing out your mistake there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mozam76 said: I did read the judgement. The case was flawed for many reasons. It was you though who said that the club didnt put a coherent case together. I’m merely pointing out your mistake there. Ffs - nit picking. Having a lawyer means they give you advice. Based on what you ask and tell them. I wonder what the club lawyer was asked and told. They don't build a case devoid of client input Edited March 9 by Livi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger the cabin boy Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mozam76 said: It’s not Livingston’s fault either. It’s the job of their legal representatives to build a case, no one else. You can only piss with the cock you’ve got. Up to livi to provide good enough evidence. They had forensic accountants involved but that wasn’t mentioned at all in lord Braid’s opinion, you’d think a report from them would produce something concrete. 6 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said: Aye, it must be frustrating asking for specific details and only getting general comments in return What ‘details’ do you want from me? I’ve hardly said “I know this and that but won’t tell you” Edited March 9 by Roger the cabin boy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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