Livingston - all the threads merged

[Livi]

12 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

Up by 17% than this time last year,according to the club..

Genuinely interested 17% of what?  The number 17 means very little in this instance.

Its is very easy to make a % number look good or bad it's really the underlying number thats important.

Edited Sunday at 11:19 by Livi

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, Livi said:

Genuine question.

 

Given this is the last day of early bird season tickets. Do people think season ticket sales will be up or down this year? 

 

54 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

Up by 17% than this time last year,according to the club..

 

42 minutes ago, Livi said:

Genuinely interested 17% of what?  The number 17 means very little in this instance.

Its is very easy to make a % number look good or bad it's really the underlying number thats important.

Well you asked the question and got the answer, more people have taken up the early bird offer than last season. At the time of you asking it's up.

[Snooky]

7 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

 

 

Well you asked the question and got the answer, more people have taken up the early bird offer than last season. At the time of you asking it's up.

Indeed. And the suggestion that this was a genuine question when just about every post from the person posing that question is dripping with an anti-current-leadership of the club agenda is quite laughable. I have no ‘inside’ knowledge of what goes on at the club under the current or former ownership - I am just a supporter. I don’t know what the constant stirring on here is intended to achieve but it’s tiresome. The courts will decide the outcome and I will be here to help pick up the pieces if it goes wrong as it has in the past.

[mozam76]

2 hours ago, Troy.1995 said:

Up by 17% than this time last year,according to the club..

Fantastic. I feared it would be lower because of natural factors - relegation, poor season last time round and also the fact that the world is a shitshow and every penny is a prisoner for everyone. 

57 minutes ago, Snooky said:

Indeed. And the suggestion that this was a genuine question when just about every post from the person posing that question is dripping with an anti-current-leadership of the club agenda is quite laughable. I have no ‘inside’ knowledge of what goes on at the club under the current or former ownership - I am just a supporter. I don’t know what the constant stirring on here is intended to achieve but it’s tiresome. The courts will decide the outcome and I will be here to help pick up the pieces if it goes wrong as it has in the past.

[Livi]

59 minutes ago, Snooky said:

Indeed. And the suggestion that this was a genuine question when just about every post from the person posing that question is dripping with an anti-current-leadership of the club agenda is quite laughable. I have no ‘inside’ knowledge of what goes on at the club under the current or former ownership - I am just a supporter. I don’t know what the constant stirring on here is intended to achieve but it’s tiresome. The courts will decide the outcome and I will be here to help pick up the pieces if it goes wrong as it has in the past.

Haha

[LIVIFOREVER]

50 minutes ago, Snooky said:

Indeed. And the suggestion that this was a genuine question when just about every post from the person posing that question is dripping with an anti-current-leadership of the club agenda is quite laughable. I have no ‘inside’ knowledge of what goes on at the club under the current or former ownership - I am just a supporter. I don’t know what the constant stirring on here is intended to achieve but it’s tiresome. The courts will decide the outcome and I will be here to help pick up the pieces if it goes wrong as it has in the past.

This 100%.

Owners come and go, whatever happens, we as Livi supporters will keep on supporting Livi.

 

[Livi]

Just now, LIVIFOREVER said:

This 100%.

Owners come and go, whatever happens, we as Livi supporters will keep on supporting Livi.

 

Lets hope the current owners go soon

 

I was interested but its hard to work out it they really have gone up or down. We use % every year rather than numbers but I'll accept for now they are up

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, Livi said:

Lets hope the current owners go soon

 

I was interested but its hard to work out it they really have gone up or down. We use % every year rather than numbers but I'll accept for now they are up

Aren't the current owners Hogarth and Rankine?  

 

Think whoever wins the court case, they'll need to sell the club for all this shite to be rinsed clean, so we can start afresh with no lingering ties to past owners. 

[Livi]

1 hour ago, Snooky said:

Indeed. And the suggestion that this was a genuine question when just about every post from the person posing that question is dripping with an anti-current-leadership of the club agenda is quite laughable. I have no ‘inside’ knowledge of what goes on at the club under the current or former ownership - I am just a supporter. I don’t know what the constant stirring on here is intended to achieve but it’s tiresome. The courts will decide the outcome and I will be here to help pick up the pieces if it goes wrong as it has in the past.

Inside knowledge is laughable most of the knowledge about the club ownership is in the public domain.
 

For example nearly £3m of losses (don't let covid cloud your judgement) no me making that up its there in the public domain. Things like a team bus with Sky TV on it help with these types of overspends. 

 

Talking about club leadership wonder if there is anything happening this coming week again no insider information all in the public domain. 

I was genuinely interested to see if after what had been said and last season if that was going to decrease or increase.  Simples

Edited Sunday at 13:37 by Livi

[Livi]

5 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aren't the current owners Hogarth and Rankine?  

Ha nice one. Rankine as i understand it is not a direct shareholder of Oppco6.
 

If you read the accounts published last week the current directors of Livi FC ltd believe Baycup  are the owners.

Edited Sunday at 13:34 by Livi

[EdinburghLivi]

3 minutes ago, Livi said:

For example nearly £3m of losses (don't let covid cloud your judgement) no me making that up its there in the public domain. Things like a team bus with Sky TV on it help with these types of overspends. 

I explained that £3m is either being deliberately misleading or misunderstanding the figures and you've repeated that again. There are legitimate concerns to raise but you are not presenting that case well if you do this. 

[Livi]

2 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

I explained that £3m is either being deliberately misleading or misunderstanding the figures and you've repeated that again. There are legitimate concerns to raise but you are not presenting that case well if you do this. 

Here is a finance expert saying the same thing. Losses of almost £3m - is he wrong too? 

 

 

[Snooky]

8 minutes ago, Livi said:

Here is a finance expert saying the same thing. Losses of almost £3m - is he wrong too? 

 

 

Nobody is disputing the amount of accumulated P&L losses as far as I can see. At least some of that loss was generated during the covid period when either football was stopped completely or played behind closed doors with no match day revenue and increased costs to carry out testing etc. 

Your most reasonable point, in my opinion, is the observation that, although the annual report suggests an aim of breakeven in the current year, the assumptions used to arrive at that seem highly unlikely to be met so losses will have increased again. 

Many, many football clubs run at losses. The problems arise when those funding the losses want to be repaid. We’ve been there before as I’ve said and I hope we can navigate through the current ownership wrangle and come out the other side, whomever wins.

Out of interest, you reference a lot of evidence being in the public domain. I had a search for info from the court services on the current proceedings without success. Can you signpost me in the direction of what you’ve seen, please and thanks?

[John Hopkins]

1 ive not heard spoken about yet in among all this but what was the name of the ex WL council man who was in about the club and was previously in jail for stealing money from an old couple? Is he still involved and if he is or isn’t do we know what he was actually doing when he was there if he’s proven to be rather dodgy?

[EdinburghLivi]

1 hour ago, Livi said:

Here is a finance expert saying the same thing. Losses of almost £3m - is he wrong too? 

 

 

That figure has been built up for years and years, prior to any involvement from John Ward or Neil Hogarth. 

2016 - (£2.76m)

2017 - (£2.91m). John Ward comes on as a director.

2018 - (£2.86m). Only income statement annoyingly.

2019 - (£2.49m). Neil Hogarth comes on as director. John Ward leaves as director.

2020 - (£2.01m) Neil Hogarth leaves as director. John Ward returns as director.

2021 - (£1.62m)

2022 - (£2.47m)

2023 - (£2.95m).

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, Livi said:

Ha nice one. Rankine as i understand it is not a direct shareholder of Oppco6.
 

If you read the accounts published last week the current directors of Livi FC ltd believe Baycup  are the owners.

Ranking couldn't lie straight in bed. He has tentacles every where. Names on paper mean nothing to him.

[Livi]

1 hour ago, Snooky said:

Nobody is disputing the amount of accumulated P&L losses as far as I can see. At least some of that loss was generated during the covid period when either football was stopped completely or played behind closed doors with no match day revenue and increased costs to carry out testing etc. 

Your most reasonable point, in my opinion, is the observation that, although the annual report suggests an aim of breakeven in the current year, the assumptions used to arrive at that seem highly unlikely to be met so losses will have increased again. 

Many, many football clubs run at losses. The problems arise when those funding the losses want to be repaid. We’ve been there before as I’ve said and I hope we can navigate through the current ownership wrangle and come out the other side, whomever wins.

Out of interest, you reference a lot of evidence being in the public domain. I had a search for info from the court services on the current proceedings without success. Can you signpost me in the direction of what you’ve seen, please and thanks?

Come on we can all use google

 

Livi Fc vrs Neil Hogarth - https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2023csoh71.pdf?sfvrsn=4758ad6_1

This is the start of the ownership challenges and while the judge gave the club an option at the sheriff court  that has not been forthcoming from the club. It tells a story. IMO this report is damming on the club and just how much did it cost and they also made to pay some of NH costs as well.

Here is Oppco6 this will give you the make up.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC562119

 

Of course then there are rumours and conjecture and thats where you have to use your own mind as to what you believe or not.

 

 

 

 

[Livi]

22 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

That figure has been built up for years and years, prior to any involvement from John Ward or Neil Hogarth. 

2016 - (£2.76m)

2017 - (£2.91m). John Ward comes on as a director.

2018 - (£2.86m). Only income statement annoyingly.

2019 - (£2.49m). Neil Hogarth comes on as director. John Ward leaves as director.

2020 - (£2.01m) Neil Hogarth leaves as director. John Ward returns as director.

2021 - (£1.62m)

2022 - (£2.47m)

2023 - (£2.95m).

Whats been the clubs year on year annual losses / profit from 2019 onwards ? 

[Livi]

22 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Ranking couldn't lie straight in bed. He has tentacles every where. Names on paper mean nothing to him.

Agreed he's imo the creator of all this carnage of ownership.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 minutes ago, Livi said:

Agreed he's imo the creator of all this carnage of ownership.

He's about the last survivor of the old cartel that ran the SFL. I don't think he ever held a position, but you could smell him everywhere. In my time he had influence at at least half a dozen clubs.