Livingston - all the threads merged

[Roger the cabin boy]

2 minutes ago, Hastie17 said:

Just know you won't change your opinion lad, no point arguing 

Ironic coming from you, carry on Mr Employee

[LIVIFOREVER]

All i can say is thank f**k we won on Saturday, otherwise this thread would've been one big unhappy complaint fest.

Edited August 5 by LIVIFOREVER

[Hastie17]

7 minutes ago, Roger the cabin boy said:

Ironic coming from you, carry on Mr Employee

Hahaha oh dear. 

[Freedom Farter]

58 minutes ago, Dav nan Gael said:

Righty am gonna discuss "the" other incidents on Saturday. 

Why the club allowed the younger laddies to stand in C2 right next to the older lads and adults is beyond me .

Apparently the boys had asked to have they're own section???

Now I spoke to Suzy Ferns at half time about why the club allowed it to happen .

What happened, the guys in C3 started singing and then the young lads piped up with an entirely different ditty. 

Don't know what was wrong with them being up the back of the older guys in C3??

I've nothing against the boys,they're the future of the club.

But as I said to Suzy,wouldn't it have worked better if they were given the last section in the south stand,well away from C3 and they could create they're own atmosphere from there ??

Suzy to be fair raised issues about opening another stand etc.

I said a temporary walkway could  be set up between the south stand and west stand for them to access toilets and food stalls etc. 

No coins were thrown in the boys direction,a drum and microphone were taken off them but they still had they're own drum to play.

Also one of the older lads got pulled up and thrown out for vaping??

FFS,the young boys pyro was far worse  

 

I think leaving these new singing wee boys next to the singing big boys (C3) will work out. They'll merge into one big blob eventually. Although I also like the idea of them going down the other end of the stand, behind the home dugout, so they noise up the old grumpies there.

[mozam76]

Stephen Kelly is magnificent.

[The Wrong Car]

3 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

Stephen Kelly is magnificent.

I think the drop to Championship suits him greatly. It allows him to play in a midfield three without as much defensive responsibilities, and gives him a LW and LB to link up with.

Incidentally I though Shinnie looked much better further forward as a wide option (just not as a CF )

[Freedom Farter]

42 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

It allows him to play in a midfield three without as much defensive responsibilities, and gives him a LW and LB to link up with.

This is key. It's all about providing the optimal platform for your best players so they can shine. 

I imagine a conundrum Martindale has just now is whether to put Green in at holding mid and Brandon would go to right back. Probably Green would be better at getting the ball passed into Kelly (or Yengi or the wide attackers) than Brandon. Yet you lose some defensive solidity if you go with Green in there over Brandon. That can mean you turn over possession from the opposition less often and concede the midfield battle a bit.

Trying to balance a team is full of all these trade offs. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

26 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

This is key. It's all about providing the optimal platform for your best players so they can shine. 

I imagine a conundrum Martindale has just now is whether to put Green in at holding mid and Brandon would go to right back. Probably Green would be better at getting the ball passed into Kelly (or Yengi or the wide attackers) than Brandon. Yet you lose some defensive solidity if you go with Green in there over Brandon. That can mean you turn over possession from the opposition less often and concede the midfield battle a bit.

Trying to balance a team is full of all these trade offs. 

I think both Lawal and Green are good at overturning possession, also for a wee guy Lawal is excellent winning headers. Very much reminds me of Omeonga's style of play.

 

Love your idea of the C2 Ultras moving down behind the home dugout, they'd drown out all the moans* and lift the atmosphere down there. Really been impressed by the noisy section's fans singing this season, even in pre season games they sang all game and made it feel like a proper game and not just a kick about.

 

*particularly from Martindale.

Edited August 5 by LIVIFOREVER

[Troy.1995]

36 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I think both Lawal and Green are good at overturning possession, also for a wee guy Lawal is excellent winning headers. Very much reminds me of Omeonga's style of play.

 

Love your idea of the C2 Ultras moving down behind the home dugout, they'd drown out all the moans* and lift the atmosphere down there. Really been impressed by the noisy section's fans singing this season, even in pre season games they sang all game and made it feel like a proper game and not just a kick about.

 

*particularly from Martindale.

Think youl find most of seats behind the home dugout are taken by long term season ticket holders.Of which I'm one.Best scenario for me if its viable is to move them to one of the corners North or South Stand.Dont know about those around me,but I definitely wouldn't move to accommodate them,old foggy or not.

[LIVIFOREVER]

6 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

Think youl find most of seats behind the home dugout are taken by long term season ticket holders.Of which I'm one.Best scenario for me if its viable is to move them to one of the corners North or South Stand.Dont know about those around me,but I definitely wouldn't move to accommodate them,old foggy or not.

Aye i was joking a bit, but the moaniest/angriest place seems to be behind the home dugout, i sit behind the away one and don't hear much around me. 

On a more serious suggestion, it would be good having upbeat singing sections at both ends of the stand, like having stereo.

[Livi]

2 hours ago, mozam76 said:

Stephen Kelly is magnificent.

Surprised he stayed tbh 

[Troy.1995]

2 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye i was joking a bit, but the moaniest/angriest place seems to be behind the home dugout, i sit behind the away one and don't hear much around me. 

On a more serious suggestion, it would be good having upbeat singing sections at both ends of the stand, like having stereo.

Your right,but I think youl find at most grounds,when things aren't going your way,something that's been with us for a while,behind the home dugouts is not for the fainthearted shall I say.TBF,some of us try to shout them down and on occasion it usually works,but get your points.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, Livi said:

Surprised he stayed tbh 

Aye think we all thought he'd be offski, great still having him though, reckon he'll have a great season and score into double figures. There's a few players that dropping down a league should really shine this season, Brandon in the 2nd half was also a stand out, big Yengi despite not scoring had his best game for us.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

All for the younger ones trying to make some noise but everyone will just need to learn to get along as there's no chance we'll spend the money to open another stand.

Is there space in A1 for them? That way there is a group at either end making noise. Although it's possible we put community tickets there at the moment. 

Hopefully I won't spark too intense a debate with this comment but they need to bin the pyro. I get it, it adds atmosphere, it's fun etc. but it's not safe and will discourage others from coming to games. 

[The Wrong Car]

25 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye think we all thought he'd be offski, great still having him though, reckon he'll have a great season and score into double figures. There's a few players that dropping down a league should really shine this season, Brandon in the 2nd half was also a stand out, big Yengi despite not scoring had his best game for us.

One thing that struck me was how mobile our midfield is now. Last year, largely due to Martindale’s tactics and the pace of the players, if a team got past Holt or Kelly towards the halfway line they’d have free run at our back line. On Saturday there was numerous occasions when Brandon, Kelly and Pittman tracked folk well into their own half. A fairly small thing, but much better to see as a fan.

[mozam76]

41 minutes ago, Livi said:

Surprised he stayed tbh 

I'm surprised nobody wanted him.

[ATLIS]

9 hours ago, Hastie17 said:

The only real question here is, you don't like what's on socials, but do you have anything you would like to see? 

This is the exact opposite of what you've asked for but it factors in. For me a lot of the (very good) work the club does with social media videos/content etc gets drowned out by the overwhelming amount of ads. The same ads running at the same time each week. It gets very easy to just tune out the rest of the content that gets produced when it's being outnumbered by 3 to 1 by ads. It's only really on game day do we get a break from that kind of content being the majority. 

I understand the club uses it to bring in some revenue but at this point they've gone too far and it's coming at a cost of fan engagement. The sheer amount of bloat on it is too much yet it's a fine balance of maximising revenue streams and cultivating a community club feel. At times over the stint in the Premiership the club started to feel over commercialised. We've got a social media partner, match day ball sponsorships, match sponsorships, player of the month sponsorships, player of the match sponsorships.

Sponsored posts from FOCO, SPFL Trust (I believe it's an SPFL obligation to be fair), Kick Mental Health (a good thing but it gets drowned out amongst the others), Sports Club Maps, Float, Monarchs Speedway, Bawbags, first team physio's services, The Centre, Flat Back 4, Firepits etc

At the same time we're being upsold/advertised, hospitality, programmes, kid's memberships, player sponsorships (3 days in a row at one point), side of pitch sponsorships, match day/ball sponsorships, training kit sponsorships, media room sponsorships etc. 

For me that takes away from a lot of the good content that does get produced, going through Livi's Spanish stars of the past on the day of the final for the Euros, kit releases, interviews. A lot of things like that get lost in the bloat and aren't as effective as they should be. I've missed a lot of content we've made and only noticed it well after the fact because it was lost in the ads. As you'd said, stuff has been taken on board with asking about injuries, we're getting good post game content and highlights are out very quickly. Those are all absolutely great but for me it's hard to be engaged by the content produced on non-match days due to the commercial bloat we've got going on, and that's something I'd imagine we're contractually tied into for 24/25.

I could be wrong but for me personally, it's made me feel a bit distant from the 'community' feel of the club. Factor in the overhanging threat and anxiety over court cases that are draining money from the club and a fairly sore and recent relegation it isn't a surprise that fans are a bit more touchy than they've been in years where things have been going well. After last season the club needs/needed to do a lot of work in bringing fans back into a more positive mindset and get the feel-good factor back to the club (which a lot of the good content produced has helped doing). The club feels a lot more commercial than it did compared to our back to back promotions seasons, maybe that's just the club evolving and growing but it's for sure taken away a bit of the connection the fans felt to the club. 

It's not a black and white, social media team bad, situation. There's a lot going into it but I'd say it's undeniable that there's a good bit of disconnect between the club's fan facing media and the fans expectations and feelings and the current product from the club isn't trending towards fixing that. Badura blocking Livi fans, making petty comments and being very defensive has likely gone a long way to harming those relations even if he didn't intend to do so. I'd agree with your sentiment that a majority of his blockings were to keep out some of the noise (he'd blocked Callum Brown that did commentary/worked with him) but changing bios and being petty to certain fans were definitely a personal jab. 

[Livi]

15 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

I'm surprised nobody wanted him.

Quite

[Livi]

6 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

This is the exact opposite of what you've asked for but it factors in. For me a lot of the (very good) work the club does with social media videos/content etc gets drowned out by the overwhelming amount of ads. The same ads running at the same time each week. It gets very easy to just tune out the rest of the content that gets produced when it's being outnumbered by 3 to 1 by ads. It's only really on game day do we get a break from that kind of content being the majority. 

I understand the club uses it to bring in some revenue but at this point they've gone too far and it's coming at a cost of fan engagement. The sheer amount of bloat on it is too much yet it's a fine balance of maximising revenue streams and cultivating a community club feel. At times over the stint in the Premiership the club started to feel over commercialised. We've got a social media partner, match day ball sponsorships, match sponsorships, player of the month sponsorships, player of the match sponsorships.

Sponsored posts from FOCO, SPFL Trust (I believe it's an SPFL obligation to be fair), Kick Mental Health (a good thing but it gets drowned out amongst the others), Sports Club Maps, Float, Monarchs Speedway, Bawbags, first team physio's services, The Centre, Flat Back 4, Firepits etc

At the same time we're being upsold/advertised, hospitality, programmes, kid's memberships, player sponsorships (3 days in a row at one point), side of pitch sponsorships, match day/ball sponsorships, training kit sponsorships, media room sponsorships etc. 

For me that takes away from a lot of the good content that does get produced, going through Livi's Spanish stars of the past on the day of the final for the Euros, kit releases, interviews. A lot of things like that get lost in the bloat and aren't as effective as they should be. I've missed a lot of content we've made and only noticed it well after the fact because it was lost in the ads. As you'd said, stuff has been taken on board with asking about injuries, we're getting good post game content and highlights are out very quickly. Those are all absolutely great but for me it's hard to be engaged by the content produced on non-match days due to the commercial bloat we've got going on, and that's something I'd imagine we're contractually tied into for 24/25.

I could be wrong but for me personally, it's made me feel a bit distant from the 'community' feel of the club. Factor in the overhanging threat and anxiety over court cases that are draining money from the club and a fairly sore and recent relegation it isn't a surprise that fans are a bit more touchy than they've been in years where things have been going well. After last season the club needs/needed to do a lot of work in bringing fans back into a more positive mindset and get the feel-good factor back to the club (which a lot of the good content produced has helped doing). The club feels a lot more commercial than it did compared to our back to back promotions seasons, maybe that's just the club evolving and growing but it's for sure taken away a bit of the connection the fans felt to the club. 

It's not a black and white, social media team bad, situation. There's a lot going into it but I'd say it's undeniable that there's a good bit of disconnect between the club's fan facing media and the fans expectations and feelings and the current product from the club isn't trending towards fixing that. Badura blocking Livi fans, making petty comments and being very defensive has likely gone a long way to harming those relations even if he didn't intend to do so. I'd agree with your sentiment that a majority of his blockings were to keep out some of the noise (he'd blocked Callum Brown that did commentary/worked with him) but changing bios and being petty to certain fans were definitely a personal jab. 

We don't always agree but some good points in there 

The club don't need special events to listen to fans its here in an abundance imo they just need to listen a little more and where its appropriate just act without a big PR splash.

One thing i would add the constant referring to lack of resources when something good has been done  we all know that and there is no need to justify a good piece with a negative slant around resources.

[LiviLion]

24 minutes ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

All for the younger ones trying to make some noise but everyone will just need to learn to get along as there's no chance we'll spend the money to open another stand.

Is there space in A1 for them? That way there is a group at either end making noise. Although it's possible we put community tickets there at the moment. 

Hopefully I won't spark too intense a debate with this comment but they need to bin the pyro. I get it, it adds atmosphere, it's fun etc. but it's not safe and will discourage others from coming to games. 

C3 just seems to be the most obvious option all round, noise bounces off the wall making it seem louder, they can light their pyro without it blowing into the faces of folk who chose not to sit in the "ultras section". It was very weird seeing them actively trying to sing over anything the older guys in C3 would start, you'd have thought it was unsegregated and they were two different sets of fans. Didn't help that you couldn't actually hear what they were singing (partly down to their age I think, partly down to them being more spread across the front few rows), it was just noise.

My first thought on why they moved was someone in C3 told them to, but based on a facebook post/comment it was because the older folk "don't take it seriously" They get leeway for actually being children, but it just seemed like a bunch of iPad kids with main character syndrome.

They've been great at the noise they make, and they don't generally seem to be seeking trouble - I've noticed once when they bounced round to the away end at FT and promptly shat it when a single person reacted, but not sure if that was some one off or if I've completely missed them doing it regularly. Would be great to have them all in C3 (not just because it means I won't have to deal with those reeking smoke bombs), especially with an exciting season ahead. Hopefully if that won't happen then they can at least find somewhere else.