Savage Henry Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 When I heard Gordon Smith talk at the Supporters Direct' Scottish Conference a few years ago, I thought that Scottish football was fucked - I haven't changed my mind. Scottish football would be even more fucked if Supporters Direct had anything to do with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Scottish football would be even more fucked if Supporters Direct had anything to do with it. Be even more fucked if you has anything to do with it - you frannie loving teuchter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Be even more fucked if you has anything to do with it - you frannie loving teuchter. Well indeed, and I realise this. Which is why the last group of people I want running my club are the myclub folks or a supporters' trust. Having said that, I would absolutely and unequivocally wish to endorse the increased role of the Rangers Supporters Trust in the daily operation of Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Quite funny that David Winters and Danny Griffin extended their contracts just over 2 weeks ago. Footballers and their agents, eh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The bond thing has indeed been suggested before would, for one thing, be a serioue impediment for anyone trying to help a football club out in such a circumstance, or indeed more or less anyone getting involved in football at low levels. Not least a Trust. And I can't agree with you there was any good reason for stopping David Hay either - are you suggesting anyone who has managed a club going into administration should be prevented working in football again? I appreciate what you're saying and it would be nice to think something can be done, but easy as it is to be wise after the event it's very hard to devise any set of rules that would have distinguished, as of last summer, between the new regime at Livi and plenty of other regimes that are perfectly legit and have done well with other clubs. One of the areas I'm going to try to find out more is the tying of profit and loss accounts to football clubs versus "holding companies". I'm pretty sure that the significant debts at Almondvale will be tied to the football club, but I'm less than convinced that income streams necessarily go the same way. The debts of Livingston FC might well be accruing at a rate of knots as income is diverted to LiviDream. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Well indeed, and I realise this. Which is why the last group of people I want running my club are the myclub folks or a supporters' trust. Having said that, I would absolutely and unequivocally wish to endorse the increased role of the Rangers Supporters Trust in the daily operation of Rangers. It depends on the Supporters Trust - we're fantastically lucky to have some great people on Board at AFC Wimbledon who work for free - including our CEO, who is an ex-partner of Price Waterhouse Cooper - who took early retirement. The fans always have to be vigilent with Supporters Trusts too - as the recent shennanigens at Stockport County prove - but at least I have a vote to say who I want to run my club. Of course, you probably want Pete Winkleman to run County. Edited June 19, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 One of the areas I'm going to try to find out more is the tying of profit and loss accounts to football clubs versus "holding companies". I'm pretty sure that the significant debts at Almondvale will be tied to the football club, but I'm less than convinced that income streams necessarily go the same way. The debts of Livingston FC might well be accruing at a rate of knots as income is diverted to LiviDream. Sham Hammam was doing that at Wimbledon over 10 years ago - as he diverted funds to his companies in the Cayman Islands. Problem is the average football administrator (and most of them are below average) has little experience of how these shady characters launder their money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebanda's Handyman Services Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Massone appears to be winging every situation that running a club throws at him. He reminds me of when I got my first flat and didn't really have a clue about how to run it or budget for things that would be needing paid in the future. I ended up flying by the seat of my pants and fortunately was able to sell the flat at a decent profit to cover the debts that I'd racked up through missed payments, bank charges etc. Luckily, I didn't have a cleaner otherwise she would have had me at a tribunal regarding missed wage payments. Massone has his first club, he doesn't seem to have a clue about how to run it or budget for things that are needing paid in the present never mind what bleak future Livingston FC may have. He's flying by the seat of his pants but unfortunately there appears to be no easy get out clause like selling the club at a profit to wipe out all the debt. Livi may be franchised but you have to feel for the hardcore element of their support, men women and children who, believe it or not, will love their club as much as any other teams fans and invest time and effort into saving their team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Livi may be franchised but you have to feel for the hardcore element of their support, men women and children who, believe it or not, will love their club as much as any other teams fans and invest time and effort into saving their team. Indeed - they might now realise how the majority of Meadowbank fans felt when they lost their club in the 80's - then again most of them don't give a flying f**k as long as they have a club to watch on their doorstep. What goes around comes around - or you can call it Karma. Where's Captain Sensible with his dancing shoes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doink Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed - they might now realise how the majority of Meadowbank fans felt when they lost their club in the 80's - then again most of them don't give a flying f**k as long as they have a club to watch on their doorstep. What goes around comes around - or you can call it Karma. Where's Captain Sensible with his dancing shoes? God you're tedious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Livi Drum Beat Mafia have issued a vote of no confidence on Massolini over on Livilions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I do get partly what your saying KftS, Meadowbank fans will be gutted etc. But, surely you can't slag folk for supporting there local team? "yer hame teams yer ain team" and all that lovey dovey stuff. Their hame team was nicked from Edinburgh. I do believe that Livingston has a Junior team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Indeed - they might now realise how the majority of Meadowbank fans felt when they lost their club in the 80's - then again most of them don't give a flying f**k as long as they have a club to watch on their doorstep. What goes around comes around - or you can call it Karma. Where's Captain Sensible with his dancing shoes? This is where it all gets difficult. I genuinely do have sympathy for elements of the support, but there seems to be something almost Darwinian about Livingston.......no matter how many chances they get, no matter how many major scares, they seem to revert to the position that despite what they see around them, if an owner or investor isn't splashing their personal fortune on entertaining them, or if they aren't "speculating to accumulate", then they ain't worthy of being in charge at Livingston. The lessons learned by umpteen other clubs never ever seem to stick. The model has been wrong from day one. I guess I'd disagree with LLD over the 9 year old crying his eyes out. If the club fold and disappear, it's far from being the end of the world. Those who go unpaid (again!) get the shitty end of the stick. Kids adapt, and move on. I'd genuinely struggle to remember a time in their history when they haven't been involved in the shadier side of things.....and always backed by a vociferous element of their support who were happy for the club to act that way provided it didn't affect what they were served up on the park. Edited June 19, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 In that case the Crichton is closer to me, might start supporting them..... Good call - you might see Massolini on the bank looking down supporting them. Or do Carstairs have a local team? Call to arms on livilions - protest rally at Almondvale this Saturday at 3.00pm. Quite a few of them are working mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebanda's Handyman Services Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Just a point KftS, I am only 22 and didn't start supporting Queen's until about 1998/99. What about the Livi fans my age and younger who are just supporting their local team? I don't think KftS is too interested in looking at things from that perspective. I wonder what he'd rather, Livingston survive and the supporters still have their local team to go and watch or Livingston go bust and some of their fans find themselves on one of the many buses heading towards Parkhead or Ibrox? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Nomi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have never really had any time for Livi to be honest - probably due to having friends who supported Meadowbank, however I do feel sorry for true Livi fans (all be it there are not that many of them ) as The Ton almost went out of business a few years ago so I know how it feels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Just a point KftS, I am only 22 and didn't start supporting Queen's until about 1998/99. What about the Livi fans my age and younger who are just supporting their local team? That's a fair point - but as i said there has been a Junior Club in Livingston for many years. I'd argue that they are the true local club rather than a club parachuted in from Edinburgh. If there is enough support, the Livi fans will rally and start again ala Clydebank, Gretna and Wimbledon. They'll have my full backing. I don't think KftS is too interested in looking at things from that perspective. I wonder what he'd rather, Livingston survive and the supporters still have their local team to go and watch or Livingston go bust and some of their fans find themselves on one of the many buses heading towards Parkhead or Ibrox? As I said, if Livvie have to reform the fans will have my full support. He added me on Facebook yesterday, he had one of those applications when you pick a top 5 of something. He had one "top five most hated teams" Livi didn't even make the cut, I was shocked! A lot more teams to hate than Livvie, young Finlay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) The Livi Drum Beat Mafia have issued a vote of no confidence on Massolini over on Livilions. Unconfirmed reports that one of the runners in the 3.45 at Ascot is now sans head. More soon... Edited June 19, 2009 by MMMDCCCLXXX 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Herald reports this morning that "Livingston FC are marked down as the sole bill payers... and even though it is understood that Stadium House had paid their £16,000 share to the Club, the electricity company had still not received any payment from the football club". So in other words, he has been paid for half the electricity by his tenants, has kept the cash, and has let them be cut off (with the attendant cost to their businesses) as a "message to the fans"! What planet is he on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I remember that when Pearse Flynn left Livingston he said the club was "nothing without me or my money." At least the old flim-flammer waited until he was out the door before saying it - Massone's said it and he's still in charge! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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