southview Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I reckon Airdrie would prefer to have a season in the second division and earn their place in the first rather than benefit from another club's misfortune. But on the other hand, the club are staying full-time and there may be a financial reason or two why they would welcome a promotion to the first division, even at this terribly late stage. IMO it should never have come to this in the first place. Livi should have been dealt with long before now by the SFL even if only for the late/non payment of wages. I still believe Massone has brought the game into disrepute with his disgusting conduct this season and is playing everyone for fools. That the SFL have done nothing is appalling. They are now presented with a very tricky situation and I don't know how they will get out of this. As an earlier poster today said, no leccy means health and safety implications just for starters. I know it would have been a brave decision, and it would have been gutting for the Livi fans who support the club financially and emotionally, but I think Livi should have been relegated to division three at the AGM as, for me, they show no signs at all of getting on an even keel and their situation is having a direct effect on so many other clubs. I hope all Livi fans unite, work together and try and salvage something out of this mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Eh, things are as bad as bad can be I know, but actually we are no deid yet. Where there's life there's hope and all that. Edited to say that I agree with the post above especially the bit about the SFL sitting on their arses and allowing things to get this bad. Edited June 18, 2009 by jimbo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The SFL's handling of this whole thing has been nothing short of embarrassing. It does look very unlikely at present that Livingston FC will exist next season as a senior club- which has massive implications for at least two other senior sides. The cut off date should have been at least a month ago, in terms of a guarantee to fulfil next season's fixtures. Looks like curtains if Massone's pledge to pay the Council back rent transpires to be fantasy, as everyone suspects it is. Once the council pull the plug the league should be right behind them in doing the same. Time for this farce to be done with. If this pans out for the worst then Airdrie would be back in Div 1, presumably, and Cowdenbeath would go up into the second, I'm not sure the gap in the third would be filled next season, as there has to be an election process and there just isn't the time before the season starts. That would leave future SFL hopefuls a year to perfect their bids for 2010-11. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Of course it won't just be Airdrie the situation will affect, there's the matter of who will take Airdries place in the 2nd Div, and a spare place in the 3rd Div to fill if Livi disappear altogether. Personally I think the SFL will procrastinate until it all becomes too complicated and the 1st Div will end up being played with 9 teams! So you can all look forward to a few saturdays off. Of course. I think it's already too late in reality to fill the space if Livi go under. You couldn't really get a fair application process sorted in time and the winners would almost certainly not be able to get any facilities lacking ready in time (I suppose a club like Spartans might actually be ready to just slot right in but you couldn't bypass the application process). If Livi go then one of the divisions will operate with nine. The SFL would prefer that it be the 3rd division. It doesn't look good for your top division to be the one short of numbers but I doubt they would force Airdrie (or Cowdenbeath) up so it would probably be down to the clubs themselves to make the call, especially the later it gets. Edited June 18, 2009 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow Loon Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here is a link to the story :- http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/8107933.stm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brazilnut Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Of course it won't just be Airdrie the situation will affect, there's the matter of who will take Airdries place in the 2nd Div, and a spare place in the 3rd Div to fill if Livi disappear altogether. Personally I think the SFL will procrastinate until it all becomes too complicated and the 1st Div will end up being played with 9 teams! So you can all look forward to a few saturdays off. I would imagine that as the runners-up in the Second Division play-off final Airdrie's place in the 2nd Division would go to Cowdenbeath. Last season when Gretna folded Stranraer were promoted to the 2nd Division as the play-off runners-up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 If this pans out for the worst then Airdrie would be back in Div 1, presumably, and Cowdenbeath would go up into the second, I'm not sure the gap in the third would be filled next season, as there has to be an election process and there just isn't the time before the season starts. That would leave future SFL hopefuls a year to perfect their bids for 2010-11. Possibly two clubs if Elgin finish bottom of the 3rd again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Personally I think the SFL will procrastinate until it all becomes too complicated and the 1st Div will end up being played with 9 teams! So you can all look forward to a few saturdays off. Which with 2 less home games for everyone would impact on budgets for the remaining 9 teams and make season tickets, priced for 18 home league games, potentially less appealing. As far as I am concerned the SFL should have sought assurances from Livi that they could fulfill their fixtures for season 2009/2010 prior to the league's AGM last month. If no such assurances were forthcoming they should have been expelled at that point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've got a bit more sympathy with the SFL than that, it really has been very difficult to tell what's been going on at Livi - I thought they were going to go under midway through last season but they kept not doing, Massone just has an extraordinary way of doing business. The SFL can't act on rumours - they could have acted on the late wage payments I grant you and if Livi do go under there will be loud cries that they should have, but it would set an uncomfortable precedent, it's not uncommon for clubs to find themselves in the mire with cashflow that way. (Thanks to SD for checking out the rulebook.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Which with 2 less home games for everyone would impact on budgets for the remaining 9 teams and make season tickets, priced for 18 home league games, potentially less appealing. As far as I am concerned the SFL should have sought assurances from Livi that they could fulfill their fixtures for season 2009/2010 prior to the league's AGM last month. If no such assurances were forthcoming they should have been expelled at that point. exactly- hardly rocket science, even for the SFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here is a link to the story :-http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/8107933.stm Sounds like a heap of pish he's talking if the bill hasn't been paid for months. But why did he buy Livingston if he didn't want to put money into the club? Did he think that he would make a profit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Possibly two clubs if Elgin finish bottom of the 3rd again. no-Elgin can finish bottom for another two seasons before being demoted to "associate" status, and even after that they would have another season to improve before a vote on their removal took place which, of course, they could still win. Not as clear cut as that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Which with 2 less home games for everyone would impact on budgets for the remaining 9 teams and make season tickets, priced for 18 home league games, potentially less appealing. As far as I am concerned the SFL should have sought assurances from Livi that they could fulfill their fixtures for season 2009/2010 prior to the league's AGM last month. If no such assurances were forthcoming they should have been expelled at that point. What sort of assurances? Massone would have given those assurances, what would you do then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here is a link to the story :-http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/8107933.stm The guy is a total and utter fruit loop Does he honestly think that this sort of tactic is going to make the council, fans and local business suddenly kowtow to him and give in to his demands for fear that he might go away? Presumably when Griffiths goes Massolini will try and spin that the same way. I would say things cant get anymore bizarre, but then I thought that after his Livvy lions drunken ramblings. Hey, wonder if he'll be on again tonight ... from home, obviously 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Which with 2 less home games for everyone would impact on budgets for the remaining 9 teams and make season tickets, priced for 18 home league games, potentially less appealing. Both valid points. The first of which had already occurred to me, the second of which hadn't. I don't know if the SFL has the resources to directly compensate clubs for two lost gates but it is an option. Livi as 1st division members would of course be due a pay out from the League during the season. That could be redistributed split nine ways over the other first division clubs and would go a long way towards compensating for the lost gates. The season ticket pricing is an issue. I guess the only solution is a part refund to anyone who has already bought and a reduction in price for those who haven't. I've got a bit more sympathy with the SFL than that, it really has been very difficult to tell what's been going on at Livi - I thought they were going to go under midway through last season but they kept not doing, Massone just has an extraordinary way of doing business. The SFL can't act on rumours - they could have acted on the late wage payments I grant you and if Livi do go under there will be loud cries that they should have, but it would set an uncomfortable precedent, it's not uncommon for clubs to find themselves in the mire with cashflow that way.(Thanks to SD for checking out the rulebook.) I agree. It's a really difficult call for the SFL and I have every sympathy. I think they potentially should have acted on the late wage issue and perhaps demanded the lodging of some sort of bond with the threat of third division if it wasn't forthcoming. It's a very jackbooted approach though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I understand where you are coming from Yoss with regards SFL approach to Livi situation but I feel by adopting a hardline stance they would have been doing the game a favour in that clubs know that SFL would treat financial irregularities seriously. And not paying staff wages on time/at all is about as serious a financial irregularity as you can get in my book. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Who is on the League Management Comittee? They cannot have failed to have a contingency plan, again. There was no suspicion of what was about to happen. It was a widely known fact they would go bust! Skyline, an employee of your club told me it would happen, he even told me with reasonable accuracy when Mileson would pull out. Before they had even gone up. PM me if you like to discuss. So basically I don't believe they don't know what is going to happen, and possibly that things are being allowed to run there course....vested interests maybe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unthinkable Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The SFL made a "threat" in May that Livi would be relegated to the 3rd Div for failure to pay employees under contract. There was a meeting arranged with Livi and David Longmuir from the SFL . http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/t...ton/8047078.stm Surely a deadline should have been set to have assurances that Livi could survive the summer, I am sure Gretna were relegated straight to the 3rd last year to make the whole restructuring process easier, before they eventually went under. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The SFL made a "threat" in May that Livi would be relegated to the 3rd Div for failure to pay employees under contract. There was a meeting arranged with Livi and David Longmuir from the SFL .http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/t...ton/8047078.stm Surely a deadline should have been set to have assurances that Livi could survive the summer, I am sure Gretna were relegated straight to the 3rd last year to make the whole restructuring process easier, before they eventually went under. What sort of assurances? Gretna's situation was a bit different, they were already in administration even before the end of the previous season, and there was already an issue with the ground which gave the SFL further scope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unthinkable Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 What sort of assurances?Gretna's situation was a bit different, they were already in administration even before the end of the previous season, and there was already an issue with the ground which gave the SFL further scope. The only assurances that the SFL could have possibly asked for was that the employees that were due wages from March, April or whenever, would be reimbursed in full or face consequences. I doubt the SFL could legally relegate them for that though and it was a hollow threat, to entice Livi to pay up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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