nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 What "ludicrous nonsense" do I offer on the subject? your post i quoted is full of it "towering insecurity" "current Rangers" - to be fair you dont roam into the realms of absolute lunacy ike most of the new clubbers on this thread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoBalls Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 another meaningless list of bollocks from you the facts are we are officially the same club according to uefa , the eca, spfl, sfa, hmrc, the stock market, lord glennie, lord nimmo, , bdo, duff and phelps, the asa and the fact that around 20 other clubs in the uk have went through the same process and remained the same club the only actual evidence you have is from ex players and sports journos from 4 years ago, non experts every single one of them, 99% of them who have since stated we are the same club - and thats it there is no wealth of evidence on the new club side - not one credible source exists to back it and thats the facts the tupe situation is evidence of a new company, not a new club the licence situation does not prove we are new club in any way since the organisations that gave us the licence all state we are the same club the red card protest was about stopping liquidation not about us being a new club, Rangers I getting vote on Rangers II's admission to the SPL, was the company not the club none of those constitute any actual evidence - hope that helps I'm glad you're not upset though. Somewhere tonight there's a parallel universe where Celtic have been liquidated and you're on a message board saying the opposite of what you're saying here. Imagine for arguments sake the SFA (and therefore UEFA and therefore ASA) said it's a new club. Would you be standing by their word? No. You stand by their word because you like what they say, not because you respect everything that comes from the SFA. I already said I accepted it was the same Rangers yet you still sound like a seething mess. If you can't see that there are two sides to this argument then you're a certified fuckwit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 its not genuine discussion on here though, its the new club fantasists with their fingers in their ears and eyes closed when actual evidence is introduced, none of you will adress the elephant in the room , which is that absolutely every credible source says we are the same club and no credible source says we are a new club As Bino Balls posted earlier, there are numerous sources which point to the murkiness of this. I've no need to claim you're brand new. You feel an overwhelming need however to claim that liquidation does not matter at all. This thing's a messy guddle. The ridiculous perspectives are those that insist otherwise, in either direction. Genuine question: Why does it matter so much to you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 you can continue to claim this and we will continue to laugh at you for being stupid Football banter, innit? I'll laugh back and equate you to a flat Earther. Like I say, liquidation is forever. Football fans are notoriously petty and have long memories. This thread could outlive genuine Armageddon. Sad but true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Can you show any evidence of the opinions of UEFA, ECA, HMRC and the stock market? yep i have posted them numerous times before on here, do you have any actual credible evidence that we are a new club backed up by facts - nope uefa ““We consulted with UEFA, which explained that its rules allowed for the recognition of the ‘sporting continuity’ of a club’s match record, even if that club’s corporate structure had changed,†“Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and consequently three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence Rangers currently sit at number 264 on the UEFA club rankings 4 and have been accumulating points for this season and the last 4 seasons which shows continuation from the oldco to the newco indicating that they consider us the same club. There the eca “Rangers are permitted to hold associate membership, which holds no voting rights, as they are one of the founder members of the ECA. The organisation considers the club’s history to be continuous regardless of the change of company.†the stock market Rangers International Football Club plc following admission will own and operate The Rangers Football Club Limited. Rangers Football Club, based in Scotland, has become one of the world's most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1972. Playing at the 50,987 seater Ibrox Stadium, Scotland, and benefitting from the world class 37 acre Murray Park training facility, the club has been a dominant force in Scottish football for decades.â€1 hmrc HMRC are clear on the clubs status. Stating the club will survive “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.†“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start."1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 As Bino Balls posted earlier, there are numerous sources which point to the murkiness of this. I've no need to claim you're brand new. You feel an overwhelming need however to claim that liquidation does not matter at all. This thing's a messy guddle. The ridiculous perspectives are those that insist otherwise, in either direction. Genuine question: Why does it matter so much to you? No one is arguing that there isn't a team called Rangers, playing in blue at Ibrox, supported by the same fans as supported the previous incarnation. But it goes against fair play and common morality to allow them to shed debt and keep the trophies at the same time. They're free to claim them and we're free to keep reminding them YNRA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoBalls Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Another post of unmitigated dross from you which I deleted from the quote as it's the same tawdry bollocks that every P&D trots out. :lol: An angry mess of a man these days. Pleasing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) yep i have posted them numerous times before on here, do you have any actual credible evidence that we are a new club backed up by facts - nope uefa ““We consulted with UEFA, which explained that its rules allowed for the recognition of the ‘sporting continuity’ of a club’s match record, even if that club’s corporate structure had changed,†“Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and consequently three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence Rangers currently sit at number 264 on the UEFA club rankings 4 and have been accumulating points for this season and the last 4 seasons which shows continuation from the oldco to the newco indicating that they consider us the same club. There the eca “Rangers are permitted to hold associate membership, which holds no voting rights, as they are one of the founder members of the ECA. The organisation considers the club’s history to be continuous regardless of the change of company.†the stock market Rangers International Football Club plc following admission will own and operate The Rangers Football Club Limited. Rangers Football Club, based in Scotland, has become one of the world's most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1972. Playing at the 50,987 seater Ibrox Stadium, Scotland, and benefitting from the world class 37 acre Murray Park training facility, the club has been a dominant force in Scottish football for decades.â€1 hmrc HMRC are clear on the clubs status. Stating the club will survive “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.†“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start."1 Aye, but Rangers were liquidated (in liquidation, whatever). Or do you deny that? Liquidation = dead. End of that original incarnation. It is that stark and simple. I understand why you want to deny it, but it's daft. Everyone knows. Edited March 24, 2016 by kildog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Jesus. All you do is parrot the same old crap. No room for nuance. No room for actual discussion. Just repetition of a stacked judgement, not because of your innate respect for it, but because it suits your preferred, self serving reading. Just absurd. im willing to consider any actual evidence you can provide and discuss it, the facts are you dont actually have any, im all for nuance but these nonseniscal arguments that are often provided on here by new clubbers dont have any evidence backing them up and dont prove anything - the only actual evidence you have is 4 year old newspaper headlines and the opinions of ex pros and thats it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 :lol: An angry mess of a man these days. Pleasing. He really is. I think it's a shame though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I see you've dropped the stock market from your list. Now, evidence of the opinion of HMRC, please. only because i got bored of typing it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 As I said, expediency. It's staggering that you describe others as 'flat earthers'. claiming something is true when all the evidence shows otherwise is the very definition of a flat earther and thats what you new clubbers do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I'm glad you're not upset though. Somewhere tonight there's a parallel universe where Celtic have been liquidated and you're on a message board saying the opposite of what you're saying here. Imagine for arguments sake the SFA (and therefore UEFA and therefore ASA) said it's a new club. Would you be standing by their word? No. You stand by their word because you like what they say, not because you respect everything that comes from the SFA. I already said I accepted it was the same Rangers yet you still sound like a seething mess. If you can't see that there are two sides to this argument then you're a certified fuckwit. yawn, pointing out the many flaws in your argument makes me a seething mess does it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 claiming something is true when all the evidence shows otherwise is the very definition of a flat earther and thats what you new clubbers do Where is the evidence Rangers didn't enter liquidation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 As Bino Balls posted earlier, there are numerous sources which point to the murkiness of this. I've no need to claim you're brand new. You feel an overwhelming need however to claim that liquidation does not matter at all. This thing's a messy guddle. The ridiculous perspectives are those that insist otherwise, in either direction. Genuine question: Why does it matter so much to you? there arent numerous sources that point to the murkiness of this, there are various arguments suggested by new clubbers which claim murkiness but none of them can be backed up by any credible evidence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 yep i have posted them numerous times before on here, do you have any actual credible evidence that we are a new club backed up by facts - nope uefa ““We consulted with UEFA, which explained that its rules allowed for the recognition of the ‘sporting continuity’ of a club’s match record, even if that club’s corporate structure had changed,†“Clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by ‘cleaning up’ their balance sheet while offloading debts – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club’s legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and consequently three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence Rangers currently sit at number 264 on the UEFA club rankings 4 and have been accumulating points for this season and the last 4 seasons which shows continuation from the oldco to the newco indicating that they consider us the same club. There the eca “Rangers are permitted to hold associate membership, which holds no voting rights, as they are one of the founder members of the ECA. The organisation considers the club’s history to be continuous regardless of the change of company.†the stock market Rangers International Football Club plc following admission will own and operate The Rangers Football Club Limited. Rangers Football Club, based in Scotland, has become one of the world's most successful clubs, having won 54 League titles, 33 Scottish Cups, 27 League Cups and the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1972. Playing at the 50,987 seater Ibrox Stadium, Scotland, and benefitting from the world class 37 acre Murray Park training facility, the club has been a dominant force in Scottish football for decades.â€1 hmrc HMRC are clear on the clubs status. Stating the club will survive “the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation.†“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA. Rangers can make a fresh start."1 The bit in red is important. There's a 3 year interruption in any history. The bit in green (couldn't help myself) is a Rangers press release, not a Stock Exchange statement. The bit in blue (see how fair I am) talks about the sale of the football assets and the continuation of football at Ibrox. It says nothing about the continuation of 'Rangers'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Nach...TEDI , The moron doth protest too much! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 No one is arguing that there isn't a team called Rangers, playing in blue at Ibrox, supported by the same fans as supported the previous incarnation. But it goes against fair play and common morality to allow them to shed debt and keep the trophies at the same time. They're free to claim them and we're free to keep reminding them YNRA. if all the evidence points to us being the same club then we are the same club - simple as that - ofiicially we are the same club according to those in power in football - thats a fact even you cant dispute - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 im willing to consider any actual evidence you can provide and discuss it, the facts are you dont actually have any, im all for nuance but these nonseniscal arguments that are often provided on here by new clubbers dont have any evidence backing them up and dont prove anything - the only actual evidence you have is 4 year old newspaper headlines and the opinions of ex pros and thats it Have I, at any stage, quoted a four year old newspaper headline, or an ex pro? My evidence is that the thing we called a club ceased to exist. A contortion is required to say that it still somehow lived on. It's a contortion I can up to a point, accept. Saying so, is not nonsensical. Have you any arguments of your own, that aren't reliant on the readings of other bodies, some of whom have vested interests, or take their leads from others? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Aye, but Rangers were liquidated (in liquidation, whatever). Or do you deny that? Liquidation = dead. End of that original incarnation. It is that stark and simple. I understand why you want to deny it, but it's daft. Everyone knows. yawn everyone of those sources says otherwise, no one credible backs your opinion, its as simple as that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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