Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[thelegendthatis]

I see that The Rangers are the latest team to bring out a pink charity shirt. Maybe Tedi can tell us where the 5 stars have gone....

http://www.footballs...ball-shirt.html

One of two trustees for the Rangers Charity Foundation is John Greig. Whose role in the illegal governance of Rangers plc is well documented, and reported upon publicly. With this cloud hanging over him and the high probability of criminal charges I am amazed he would still remain as a trustee of any charity.

I am surprised OSCR accepts a charity with only two trustees, one with such direct connection to Rangers or The Rangers.

From the £385k they raise, about £150k goes on running it. Rent for office space?

[cyderspaceman]

More gross inaccuracy from John McCrae of the Guard's Van Bears

You see, it isn't about our Club (phew, almost). It is about the League we left behind. Or were thrown out of, to be completely accurate.

Completely inaccurate he means. As we all know, and most of us accept, Rangers were not "thrown out" of the SPL. The old Rangers club and company was liquidated and therefore ceased to exist. The new "The Rangers" football club was refused admission to the SPL and quite rightly so.

Edited October 23, 2012 by cyderspaceman

[cyderspaceman]

£20 from every shirt sold goes to rangers..what a great lost cause.

Fixed that for you, hope you don't mind.

[FinnesTON]

Consistently inconsistent

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20031931

So he says he wanted to demonstrate how far they have come, so the death threats and talk about car bombs and moving hotels in order to avoid the thugs from getting you was what ? Word play it either happened or it didn't.

Why make a statement like that and if it did occur by now trying to cover that up does that not ignore the very real problem amongst the Sevco supporters. Why would anyone want these types associating themselves with any sporting organisation.

Is this the same guy who appeared flanked by some very nasty characters in a recent trip to Northern Ireland.

[wunfellaff]

Is this the same guy who appeared flanked by some very nasty characters in a recent trip to Northern Ireland.

Bodyguards

[AES]

The BBC seems to have got the message (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20031931):

Rangers' 2-0 victory over Queen's Park on Saturday, when they leapfrogged their Glasgow rivals to go top of the league was watched by a crowd of 49,463.

Edited October 23, 2012 by AES

[Mad Capsule]

The BBC seems to have got the message (BBC Sport):

Can't find link.

Doesn't seem to matter though. Doesn't seem like this story is newsworthy.

[jw hardin]

[AES]

Can't find link.

Doesn't seem to matter though. Doesn't seem like this story is newsworthy.

Fixed link. It was more the point that Queen's Park is now seen as Rangers' Glasgow rivals....

[Monkey Tennis]

the very real problem amongst the Sevco supporters. Why would anyone want these types associating themselves with any sporting organisation.

That's an easy one.

It's because there are thousands of such types and Green is rather keen on the notion of trousering their cash.

This has been a hilarious episode. Hitherto, Green hadn't put a foot wrong in appealing to that vast consituency of thick, arrogant bigots from within the Rangers support. He'd clapped his hands about Regan, he'd put up banners about the club still being the same, he'd gone to Northern Ireland, he'd given the nod to an orange jersey. In short, he'd played a blinder in getting the fools to back him and buy their tickets.

Something came unstuck however in that Sun interview (although its contents are hardly revelations - Green first came out with this stuff weeks ago). He seemed almost to admit for a moment what many of these people are actually like.

The subsequent backtracking has been highly entertaining. The message is simply "Sorry I told on you. Now can you keep on giving me your money please?" The tragedy for the half-wits is that this backtracking is bound to work for him.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Monkey Tennis

[wunfellaff]

Q. How many zombies does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. A NEW WORLD RECORD

[Monkey Tennis]

Is this the same guy who appeared flanked by some very nasty characters in a recent trip to Northern Ireland.

Hey, take that back! That's an outrageous slur.

"flanked by some very nasty characters" indeed.

As pointed out, he wasn't flanked by very nasty characters at all. One of them was sitting two seats away.

[wunfellaff]

Hey, take that back! That's an outrageous slur.

"flanked by some very nasty characters" indeed.

As pointed out, he wasn't flanked by very nasty characters at all. One of them was sitting two seats away.

[EdinburghPar1975]

I thought Duff and Phelps were going to the court of session to ask for BDO to be appointed as a matter of urgency...whats happened there? Are we back to the stage where everyone is waiting on someone else to move first?

[wunfellaff]

From the supasoaraway

OLD HANDS ... Green, above, jokes he and McCoist could still make a great strike pair in the Third Division

PETER LAWWELL couldn't do it with Neil Lennon.

But fellow Old Firm chief executive Charles Green most certainly can with Ally McCoist.

That is, talk about what it's like to be a hero footballer.

More specifically, a penalty box predator.

Rangers manager McCoist plundered a magnificent record 355 goals for the club from 581 games to guarantee legend status.

And, while it was only at non-league level, Green was a prolific striker too for a whole host of English clubs — worshipped by each of their band of diehards.

Back in those days the Yorkshireman's main currency was goals.

But, by the age of 28 and successful in business, he'd become more driven by the idea of net gains than net busters.

Green hung up his boots to commit to a life of financial deals, profit and loss.

He likes to think he's got a keen sense of value — and sealing a buy-up of crippled Rangers last May, including the UEFA-five star Ibrox Stadium and £14million Murray Park training base, for a knockdown £5.5m sure was a bargain.

For all his business acumen, Green insists he can't put a price on the memories of his playing career.

He was at Sheffield United as a schoolboy, Doncaster reserves and Barnsley reserves without achieving even one first team appearance.

But Green made up for it by regularly destroying defences in the colours of Alfreton Town, Frickley Athletic, Gainsborough Trinity, Goole Town and Cheltenham Town.

He joked to SunSport that if Rangers continue to struggle on their Division Three travels he might just persuade McCoist to join him in digging out the boots again to form a new double act.

Green, 59, said: "I started playing for the local colliery team in Goldthorpe and I got £1.50 a week for playing football and £1.50 a week for working.

"I gave all of it to my mum because we had no money.

"I wasn't a good player, but I was fantastically fast. I was the kind of striker that's known as a sniffer, a poacher.

"At the school I attended I still hold the record for the 100 and 200 metres — and that was wearing Dunlop plimsolls on grass. I was phenomenally fast.

"It was that speed and finishing that later made me feared in non-league football.

"I became one of the most prolific strikers there's ever been in non-league football.

"My career average was a goal every one and a half games. There are not many people in a lifetime career who achieve that kind of goal-scoring ratio. In my first game for Doncaster Rovers, Lawrie McMenemy was the manager.

"We played Bradford City in the FA Youth Cup and we won 4-3. I scored all four.

"My heroes were two people — Jimmy Greaves, who was a consummate predator and Gerd Muller, the West German striker. I loved watching them. I did enjoy playing, although it was never going to be a career for me.

"I couldn't make enough money from it. I was playing for Cheltenham when I retired at 28.

"By then I had a business in Manchester, next to Man United's stadium in Trafford Park Road, and dividing my time was proving too difficult. There was the odd game in the years after, but I was effectively finished as a player. I scored 19 goals in 21 games for Cheltenham, something like 70 in 140 for Goole and 15 from 20 odd games for Frickley. Wherever I played I ALWAYS scored goals.

"In fact, in terms of goals for games I don't think there's anyone in non-league football who scored more. But I only did it for money.

"At non-league level I combined my job with football and earned fantastic money.

"It allowed me to buy a home and have no mortgage. It's also how I bought my first company." Green might have been his team's star turn when it came to beating opposition keepers but he confessed he wasn't exactly the hardest working or the bravest player .

He said: "A lot of the guys I played against or for later made it in the professional game, people like Mick Wadsworth and Steve Thompson.

"I look back and laugh. Thompson was the type of player who would come off with his nose broken, with blood everywhere and mud splattered on him, while my kit would be immaculate. The headlines the day after the game would be 'Green does it again.' That would wind up a few of the committed boys!

"The joke would be that my kit would only need washing once a season — because it never got dirty, never got muddy, never got sweaty.

"But I got the bonuses for the team because I'd stick the ball in the net regularly."

Green, sadly, only realised after his mother's death how proud she'd been of his playing successes.

He said: "I recall playing for Cheltenham in a pre-season friendly against Aston Villa. It was after they'd won the European Cup and Ron Saunders was manager.

"I never knew this, but my mum, who died when she was 53, had kept a scrapbook of my career. I only discovered it when we were emptying her house.

"It was emotional and it underlined how proud she'd been of me.

"As fate would have it, there was one cutting from the Birmingham newspaper and it featured that game against Villa. Ron Saunders was quoted as saying that he'd had the privilege of watching the best striker he'd ever seen in non-league football — ME.

"We'd lost 3-2 and I'd scored both goals."

Since taking over at Ibrox, Green has made McCoist aware of his own strike days and he said: "It helped break the ice with Ally early on. We haven't yet got to reminiscing about our playing careers.

"I reckon we'll be thinking about getting the boots out again and forming a striking partnership if we have any more performances like that one at Stirling!"

Edit for it has already been debunked as Saunders left Villa before the European Cup win.....selective memory shock by Chucky.

Edited October 23, 2012 by wunfellaff

[Monkey Tennis]

Edit for it has already been debunked as Saunders left Villa before the European Cup win.....selective memory shock by Chucky.

Correct. Tony Barton was manager by the time the European Cup was won.

Wonder if there are any other factual errors in Green's recollections.

[Mad Capsule]

Sorry for not being the most up to date, but what did Charles Green actually do at Sheffield United?

Maybe spelling it out here will actually wake up some Orcs too.

[Bairnforever1992]

Sorry for not being the most up to date, but what did Charles Green actually do at Sheffield United?

Maybe spelling it out here will actually wake up some Orcs too.

Charles Green He Sells The Team

Charles Green arrived at Bramall Lane in September 1995 and was appointed as Chief Executive by Manchester businessman Mike McDonald in February 1996, following the latter's takeover of the club. With McDonald making a number of laudable objectives to try and lift the Blades out of the doldrums; Green's job, as McDonald's man on the ground, was to make it happen. Green's appointment and involvement was sold as a positive thing for United. Presented as "a football man" thanks to his involvement as a professional player until injury ended his career and his focus switched to business.

What actually occurred over the next three years was a turnaround of fortunes on the pitch and the signing of relatively big name players for the Championship, but the rug was pulled from under it all before any tangible success was achieved.

The early days of Green's involvement saw Dave Bassett's reign as manager come to an end. With supporter discontent high, yet a recognition of what Bassett had achieved for the club, there were mixed emotions around Bramall Lane when Bassett left by mutual consent. That should have been that, but an agreed compensation package didn't materialise as Bassett had expected and he later stated that an attempt to argue his case with Green led to the latter offering to sort it out in the car park, allegedly not the only time such managerial tactics were employed.

Under Bassett's replacement, Howard Kendall, United went through a significant turnover of players as funds were provided to increase the quality of the squad. As United escaped relegation and the following season reached the play off final, the club seemed to be on the up, despite the last minute play off final defeat to Palace. However, little did the fans know the extent to which problems were bubbling away beneath the surface. Problems derived from over ambition at board level and some incredibly poor decision making by Green that would start to unravel in the following 18 months and beyond.

United continued to invest in well-known players; he return of former hero Brian Deane was presented as a coup for the club. Dean Saunders was also signed. With Jan Aage Fjortoft and Gareth Taylor already at the club, the Blades had an embarrassment of riches in terms of attacking quality. However it had come at an unsustainable price.

In the summer of 1998 Steve Bruce was appointed manager and was reportedly staggered at some of the salaries and contracts negotiated by Green. A fans forum was told that Saunders and Deane together were being paid more than Dave Bassett's entire squad of three years previous.

Deane himself has talked of how he tried to temper negotiations so the club didn't end up with problems.

"I bought into what I was being told by the Chief Executive at the time (Charles Green) as to what they wanted to achieve at Sheffield United. I was really up for it. They even offered me a two year contract and I said, "Look, I'll sign a one year contract and we will review it".

I had been in the Premier League with Leeds on Premier League wages, although nothing like what they are today. It was a contract where I thought that if we aren't promoted it is going to be hard for the club to be able to afford it in this division. At the time I was thinking that I really want to be here and if you're telling me that we are going to build a team that is capable of going up and then competing in the Premier League, then I'm in for that. I'd seen Paul Merson go up to Middlesbrough, he was still at the peak of his powers, so they obviously had a plan and I wanted to do the same at United. "

Howard Kendall returned to Everton and in a surprising move Nigel Spackman, on United's books as a player, was appointed as manager, his first managerial role. This is when things started to unravel. Following Spackman's appointment as manager Charles Green stated that the manager had signed a three year deal. However, rumours persisted that Spackman hadn't actually signed it. A playing contract remained in place, on more advantageous terms to the managerial contract and so the latter remained unsigned. Green was increasingly seen as untrustworthy by the fans.

Mounting financial losses led to player departures, alongside long term injuries to key players, this led to Spackman asking for funds for new players. Green's response was to sell £2.5m of players, claiming that this wouldn't affect the club's promotion prospects.

Fans increasingly believed that Green was interfering in team affairs. The persistent questioning on the matter was irritating Spackman and led to Mike McDonald issuing a statement refuting the rumours and saying a three hour meeting had been held to thrash out the issue. Maybe director involvement in team affairs is more common now and wouldn't cause as much fuss. It wasn't that outwardly common then and it was upsetting fans. It was as if Green believed his brief involvement in the game as a player made him qualified to be involved in what should be managerial duties. There are those who believe he had a say in picking the team, although this has never been proved.

During Green's reign as Chief Executive, several long-standing members of staff left Bramall Lane; including the club physio, kit man and several backroom staff. This built on rumours questioning who was managing these key team roles; Spackman or Green. Departing players talked of increased director involvement and team unrest as players were being "treated as pawns".

Green told the press that Utrecht had enquired after popular striker Gareth Taylor, to which Taylor responded that he knew nothing of it and was in the dark on the whole situation. In the end, interviews given by Spackman and a FC Utrecht spokesman suggested that a player would have to be leaving Bramall Lane, whether it Taylor or another saleable asset. It was something Spackman admitted he had little say over. Then Mike McDonald admitted that players would have to be sold to stave off financial suicide.

His argument was that the attendances were not high enough to support the squad size and wage bill. He suggested that he had been led to believe that crowds would increase with successful football and investment in the team, but it hadn't happened. That risk taking was, apparently, the fans fault. This "financial suicide" that McDonald referred to was something he and Green had personally presided over. To take the phrase used by the chairman of another Yorkshire based club following their financial suicide, there was an element of them "living the dream".

At the end of the day McDonald was in it to make money and the decisions he and Green had implemented were losing money on a weekly basis, albeit with on-pitch success. Prior to buying United he had failed to achieve a takeover of his beloved Manchester City and this was an alternative chance to "invest" in football. He had even admitted United had been his choice, because they represented a better opportunity to make money.

Eventually things came to a head when Deane and Fjortoft were sold on the same day, with manager Spackman not even aware of the deal. He was aware Fjortoft may be on his way to Barnsley, but thought Deane was late for training until he spoke to him on the phone and found he was in Lisbon, heading for talks with Benfica. It was portrayed in the media as players wanting to leave, but Brian Deane recalls differently;

"There is a lot about leaving United that I still cannot get to the bottom of. There are some things that I am still in the dark about. When I heard that I had wanted to leave, I wondered where that came from. I never said that."

Green was becoming increasingly irascible. Apparently challenged by then director (now majority shareholder) Kevin McCabe and others that they would be lynched if Deane and Fjortoft were sold on the same day, Green's response was to say he didn't give a damn and that he would sell Taylor as well. As further players criticised the McDonald/Green regime, including Fjortoft, the only thing the duo could do was resort to personal slurs. Fjortoft - scorer of 23 goals in 42 games was branded "lazy" and Fjortoft was quick to respond to with both anger and an eagerness to expose further "lies" of Green and McDonald.

Spackman eventually resigned shortly after this double blow of having his two best strikers sold without his knowledge. The striking duo's departure had been followed by the sale of Don Hutchison and the departure of Spackman's assistant Willie Donachie, who left for Manchester City. His departure was followed by more slurs from McDonald/Green; McDonald claiming Spackman's appointment was one he was never 100% happy with despite his public positivity when those questioned his lack of experience at the time.

With United challenging for promotion to the Premier League and on a decent FA Cup run, fans could see the season unravelling. They had been sold a pup by McDonald and Green yet they were the ones who were apparently to blame. Fans chanted "Charles Green, he sells the team". They were right. He had built a team with signings he had made, on wages the club couldn't afford and McDonald was unwilling to subsidise. In the end, under temporary manager Steve Thompson, United lost in the play offs and in the cup semi-final. A season that had promised much, had delivered some great games, but no end product.

"I am Chief Executive. I take the decisons and I live by them" was Green's retort to criticism of his operations. In the end he died by them. His position becoming increasingly untenable, in March 1998, Green's role was "redefined" and moved away from team and management affairs; his removal from the club impossible at the time due to pro-McDonald factions on the board. His eventual resignation saw him receiving a payment in excess of £100,000 an amount that caused consternation and raised questions when highlighted by fans and shareholders at the AGM. He didn't do badly for himself out of a relatively unsuccessful spell at Bramall Lane.

In between times new manager Steve Bruce had become increasingly vocal about the difficulty of doing his job, players were targeted but not signed, and existing players were sold. It was like managing with his hands tied behind his back. He was paying the price for previous gambles that hadn't been given the chance to pay off. The plug pulled in panic. No-one can say whether United would have reached the Premier League if Deane, Fjortoft, Hutchison and others hadn't been sold but, given the margins involved there must have been a good chance.

Charles Green is a much vilified figure at Bramall Lane. He may have just been a puppet for McDonald; he may have been the ultimate decision maker, guiding the investor. Either way the manner by which he went about his business won him few friends within the club, or with the fans.

Now, after a significant absence, Green is back in football with Rangers. The fans should treat his arrival with caution. What his role will be day-to-day remains to be seen. But the last thing Rangers need now is a man who takes risks, a man who panics when the risks don't pay off and a man who fans doubt they can trust.

If you want to know more about Green's time at United and the various boardroom machinations over 30 years at a football club, I can recommend Fit & Proper:Conflicts & Conscience in an English Football Club. A real eye opening book, whether you are a Blades fan or not. I am indebted to the book for reminding me of the timeline and key events.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Bairnforever1992

[Mad Capsule]

Thanks for that.

Reading that, it doesn't seem like he's in it for the buck, more like he wants to control a football club that will achieve greatness simply for his own ego. I'm not sure how many people will call me out on this - and disagree - but maybe he is here to win trophies, despite the fact Scottish cups and league titles mean nothing outside of Scotland?

Surely he would have learn last time? It just sounds like his managerial style is poor. Maybe he is butting into team talks with Sally and this is why the away form is so dire.

It does sound like he's a wind up merchant and trying to make money, and Rangers fans are pumping a stupid amount of cash into the company, but I don't think he is going to desert them unwillingly looking at that article.

But, most likely, he's just too stupid to realise how much he is paying in wages and creating another financial black hole...

[Bairnforever1992]

Thanks for that.

Reading that, it doesn't seem like he's in it for the buck, more like he wants to control a football club that will achieve greatness simply for his own ego. I'm not sure how many people will call me out on this - and disagree - but maybe he is here to win trophies, despite the fact Scottish cups and league titles mean nothing outside of Scotland?

Surely he would have learn last time? It just sounds like his managerial style is poor. Maybe he is butting into team talks with Sally and this is why the away form is so dire.

It does sound like he's a wind up merchant and trying to make money, and Rangers fans are pumping a stupid amount of cash into the company, but I don't think he is going to desert them unwillingly looking at that article.

But, most likely, he's just too stupid to realise how much he is paying in wages and creating another financial black hole...

Yeah it seems a lot of gers fans forgot all about it and just throw money in the share issue and theres one gers fan in Australia pledge £1M to Rangers!