flyingrodent Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 is "free speech" a right in this country? I thought that was an American thing, thats why you get all the hate preachers out on the streets and nobody can do a thing about it Yup, article ten of ECHR. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights It's limited by public order laws, as it would have to be. For example, shouting racist abuse through somebody's letterbox oversteps the "freedom of expression" mark, and is criminal harrassment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 There are genuine issues around free speech, football and how society views fans. On the other hand, it's debatable whether hate-filled chanting counts as "speech" - not even the wackiest Sevconian is going to claim that a citizen has the right to stand in the street screeching filthy abuse at passers-by. And yet, move the action to a football stadium, and suddenly that behaviour is perfectly fine, for some folk. What many of the Rangers fans here are saying is that they believe they have a near-unlimited right to act like as much of a bunch of hateful c*nts as they want. I suspect Plod is going to disagree. Celtic fans are just as guilty of irrelevant, embarrassing, non-football related pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think we could say that all teams fans probably have an offensive element in them, and can at times also be guilty of being irrelevant, non football related. It's not just isolated to the OF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Celtic fans are just as guilty of irrelevant, embarrassing, non-football related pish. That's true, unfortunately. On the other hand, you'll never see me dialling angry phone calls to ESPN if they have the temerity to mention it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 That's true, unfortunately. On the other hand, you'll never see me dialling angry phone calls to ESPN if they have the temerity to mention it. Didn't you know, it's another agenda against Sevco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
As We Rise Again Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Didn't you know, it's another agenda against Sevco ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1361729509.938403.jpg So you take a screen shot of one fan and think all of us think the same way? Are you really that stupid? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 So you take a screen shot of one fan and think all of us think the same way? Are you really that stupid? So no other sevco fans believe this is another media agenda against the club? Is that what you are saying? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
As We Rise Again Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 So no other sevco fans believe this is another media agenda against the club? Is that what you are saying? I wouldn't know and neither would you unless you go looking for it. It's basically like me going on twitter and searching for something stupid that a Celtic fan has tweeted then taking a screen shot of it and saying this is what Celtic fans think. Do you know how pathetically stupid that is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I wouldn't know and neither would you unless you go looking for it. It's basically like me going on twitter and searching for something stupid that a Celtic fan has tweeted then taking a screen shot of it and saying this is what Celtic fans think. Do you know how pathetically stupid that is? Not as pathetically stupid as say................. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 As the dead club were never out of the top flight, and the new club are starting out, to call yourself ''As We Rise Again'' makes no sense either way. Neither club have risen before (unless from the grave lol) ''As we rise'' works for both viewpoints, but to include ''again'' now that's pathetically stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
As We Rise Again Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Not as pathetically stupid as say................. What's that got to do with ESPN though? Let me answer that for you, f**k all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I don't understand some of the rangers fans to be honest. SFA sanctions costs jobs. What, and not paying the little companies that you were in debt with doesn't either. They should pick which platform they decide to attack more carefully as they are not exactly saints in certain areas they are trying to rail against. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think we could say that all teams fans probably have an offensive element in them, and can at times also be guilty of being irrelevant, non football related. It's not just isolated to the OF Well, strictly speaking, you're maybe just about right, although you'd have a job finding evidence to support the claim in full. The point is however that you're implying that the OF don't have a particular problem here that sets them apart from the other teams, and that, quite simply, is bollocks. It's not that the OF just happen to have an unpleasant element. It's not even that the element is larger by virtue of them having very large supports. These clubs have disproportionately large elements that behave in very anti-social ways because much of their appeal is blatantly divisive. I've never pretended that every OF fan is bigoted - loads and loads very clearly aren't. However, for people who do hold such views due to upbringing, ignorance, inadequacies etc, there are ready made vehicles for them to express such views via our largest and most successful football teams. The issue is worse right now with Rangers in my view because the Green stoked paranoia and siege mentality, with its focus on enemies, has somehow legitimised the worst excesses of the thickest. There are plenty of stupid, aggressive, deeply unpleasant young male football followers in Scotland. To pretend that they're spread out evenly among the teams, on even a proportional basis, is dishonest though and ignores why the OF have such problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Well, strictly speaking, you're maybe just about right, although you'd have a job finding evidence to support the claim in full. The point is however that you're implying that the OF don't have a particular problem here that sets them apart from the other teams, and that, quite simply, is bollocks. It's not that the OF just happen to have an unpleasant element. It's not even that the element is larger by virtue of them having very large supports. These clubs have disproportionately large elements that behave in very anti-social ways because much of their appeal is blatantly divisive. I've never pretended that every OF fan is bigoted - loads and loads very clearly aren't. However, for people who do hold such views due to upbringing, ignorance, inadequacies etc, there are ready made vehicles for them to express such views via our largest and most successful football teams. The issue is worse right now with Rangers in my view because the Green stoked paranoia and siege mentality, with its focus on enemies, has somehow legitimised the worst excesses of the thickest. There are plenty of stupid, aggressive, deeply unpleasant young male football followers in Scotland. To pretend that they're spread out evenly among the teams, on even a proportional basis, is dishonest though and ignores why the OF have such problems. To be honest my post was merely to state that all teams have problems are it's not confined to the OF. I did not say that it was evenly distributed amongst all the teams. it was merely to say that there are elements within all teams that want to be controversial. but like you say it just so happens that the OF have more 'ready made vehicles' in which to express those thoughts. (majority is based around a history/cause they will never understand) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 question to get this thread going again, question for the rangers fans. What are your biggest fears for the future? both in terms of the Tax issues and just the future in general? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Ibrox just isn't big enough to hold this size of support and as the club rises back to the top it might end up that there will be no room for any visiting supporters. But as the rules go the club must have seats available for visiting fans, so there might be maybe only two or three seats available just so this rule isn't broken. And yet they had the 2nd smallest stadium in Glasgow for a senior football club 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Ibrox just isn't big enough to hold this size of support and as the club rises back to the top it might end up that there will be no room for any visiting supporters. But as the rules go the club must have seats available for visiting fans, so there might be maybe only two or three seats available just so this rule isn't broken. That's a fair point. but then all those extra fans will all be glory hunters won't they. and I am sure you still can get a few more fans yet before you need to worry about expansion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 What's that got to do with ESPN though? Let me answer that for you, f**k all. Careful now, he's got a creditors list and he's not afraid to post it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) Careful now, he's got a creditors list and he's not afraid to post it. Edited February 24, 2013 by Enrico Annoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehoss Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I don't think you've grasped the expansive nature of this point I have just made. clearly it's too high brow for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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