Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Monkey Tennis]

Seriously i would doubt that if there was no Rangers and Celtic the situation would be greatly improved. The focus would then be on another outlet and a huge part of this has been the situation in Northern Ireland from the 1910s. You will always have the OO and Republican movements, all relating to Northern Ireland. As long as Scotland has organisations relating to Ireland then the bigotry will always be there.

I agree with much of this, but do you honestly think that the size, coverage and success of two clubs associated closely with the nonsense has not helped sustain it?

I think that's absurd.

[MikeyWellFan]

Seriously i would doubt that if there was no Rangers and Celtic the situation would be greatly improved. The focus would then be on another outlet and a huge part of this has been the situation in Northern Ireland from the 1910s. You will always have the OO and Republican movements, all relating to Northern Ireland. As long as Scotland has organisations relating to Ireland then the bigotry will always be there.

Really?

I mean you can be marked as one or the other just for wearing a football top.

Celtic and Rangers have over many years have become ways of defining who you are and who you hate.

Both clubs for many years exploited and encouraged this tribal divide and it would not exist anywhere near to the same extent if they didn't exist either.

[youngsy]

I agree with much of this, but do you honestly think that the size, coverage and success of two clubs associated closely with the nonsense has not helped sustain it?

I think that's absurd.

Yes it has helped to sustain it as both clubs have been a focal point for both religions going back to the beginning of the last century but the point i'm making is if both clubs did not exist there would have been another focus for both communities to indulge in. Imo as long as there has been the N.I. situation that has had more impact on bigotry and sectarianism in the WoS than anything else.

[Monkey Tennis]

Yes it has helped to sustain it as both clubs have been a focal point for both religions going back to the beginning of the last century but the point i'm making is if both clubs did not exist there would have been another focus for both communities to indulge in. Imo as long as there has been the N.I. situation that has had more impact on bigotry and sectarianism in the WoS than anything else.

What else could possibly have such a high profile and lend such 'legitimacy' to sectarianism?

I don't believe for a moment that anything else could replace it as a focus (with its associations with colour, song, iconography and triumphalism).

It's football's misfortune that it's been the perfect vehicle via which these bawbags can express themselves.

[forever_blue]

Yes it has helped to sustain it as both clubs have been a focal point for both religions going back to the beginning of the last century but the point i'm making is if both clubs did not exist there would have been another focus for both communities to indulge in. Imo as long as there has been the N.I. situation that has had more impact on bigotry and sectarianism in the WoS than anything else.

got to agree here without rangers you are looking at the orange order probably been much bigger than what they were or are as that would have been one the main things the protestant community would have clung onto , infact if you look at the dates on most scottish lodegs they were formed in the late 19th century when catholocism was on the rise. the catholics would have probably therefor had a lodge or movement of of their own and the troubles in ireland would have still played a major part in tensions in Glasgow.

[youngsy]

What else could possibly have such a high profile and lend such 'legitimacy' to sectarianism?

I don't believe for a moment that anything else could replace it as a focus (with its associations with colour, song, iconography and triumphalism).

It's football's misfortune that it's been the perfect vehicle via which these bawbags can express themselves.

The songs and everything else attached to them are and were driven by both supports, not the clubs as such. Without a doubt if both clubs never existed then the radicals who have attached themselves to both clubs for many, many years would have looked elsewhere and i've no doubt that there would have been a very significant upsurge in the membership of such organisations.

Certainly there have been many individuals involved with both clubs over the time since the clubs have been founded who have embraced and encouraged both supports in the politics of both Protestant and Catholic beliefs but imo that would still have been prevalent in Scottish society with or without the clubs.

[Monkey Tennis]

Aw Jesus.

Are you both now seriously claiming that lodge membership etc would be greater, were it not for the existence of Rangers?

Don't be ridiculous. Members of such bodies would be viewed far more widely as the sad inadequates they are, were it not for the existence of a football club which lends such bonkerdom a perceived legitimacy.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Monkey Tennis

[forever_blue]

Aw Jesus.

Are you both now seriously claiming that lodge membership etc would be greater, were it not for the existence of Rangers?

Don't be ridiculous. Members of such bodies would be viewed far more widely as the sad inadequates they are, were it not for the existence of a football club which lends such bonkerdom a perceived legitimacy.

yes i believe it would have been as i have said look at the dates of when most orange lodges and districts began in central Scotland and they almost all coincide with the growth of irish immigration and the rise of catholocism which was a result of this. without rangers to use as a vehicle by the protestant community the lodge would have probably been far greater than what it it already was in the early 20th century. why do you find this idea so rediculous ? the same would have probably happened on the other side aswell.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Jesus f**k, so the Old Firm are actually helping keep Orange Lodge numbers down now?

[AberdeenBud]

Tbf, it must be quite hard to admit that the football club you support has sustained and promoted bigotry and sectarianism for decades. Newco Rangers are arguably even more guilty of this than the oldco. They had a chance to leave the baggage behind but choose not to take it.

That's the thing I'll never get, I know plenty of good guys who support both cheeks and who don't have a bigoted bone in their body, but surely once you become a certain age and begin to learn about your club there's got to be a tipping point where you say, naw, this pish is not for me I'll go and watch my local team thank you very much.

[Monkey Tennis]

yes i believe it would have been as i have said look at the dates of when most orange lodges and districts began in central Scotland and they almost all coincide with the growth of irish immigration and the rise of catholocism which was a result of this. without rangers to use as a vehicle by the protestant community the lodge would have probably been far greater than what it it already was in the early 20th century. why do you find this idea so rediculous ? the same would have probably happened on the other side aswell.

Yes, but many widely held viewpoints from the 19th century have now become the preserve of those on the margins.

An overtly sectarian outlook would have passed further into such territory in the absence of football.

[MikeyWellFan]

That's the thing I'll never get, I know plenty of good guys who support both cheeks and who don't have a bigoted bone in their body, but surely once you become a certain age and begin to learn about your club there's got to be a tipping point where you say, naw, this pish is not for me I'll go and watch my local team thank you very much.

Half of my family support Rangers and are great people and not in anyway bigoted, well not that I've seen anyway.

I just find it strange that completely normal people would be happy to go and stand shoulder to shoulder with bigoted nutjobs and sing songs they know they shouldn't be singing.

It's a complete culture that both clubs have exploited and encouraged and is considered perfectly normal especially in the west of Scotland but I think you can only see this when outside the bubble.

[forever_blue]

Yes, but many widely held viewpoints from the 19th century have now become the preserve of those on the margins.

An overtly sectarian outlook would have passed further into such territory in the absence of football.

i think that is an outlook most scots like to think about and say is the case when in reality they are to scared to admit that part of thier country has a bit of a problem with religoun so they just blame it on rangers and celtic and hope it goes away.

[Venti]

cheers mckee your opinionn is always of value.

i take it you never troll this site then?.

but then saying that would be deflection on my part to mention wouldn't it?

Fucking hell.

Think chewing on those crayons has given you brain damage.

[Monkey Tennis]

i think that is an outlook most scots like to think about and say is the case when in reality they are to scared to admit that part of thier country has a bit of a problem with religoun so they just blame it on rangers and celtic and hope it goes away.

I too, hope it goes away and I'm certain of what would help.

[forever_blue]

I too, hope it goes away and I'm certain of what would help.

let me guess rangers and celtic go away and glasgow and west coast of scotland turns into a gleefull , peacefull paradise where the citizens hold hands and skip down buchanan street.

[MikeyWellFan]

let me guess rangers and celtic go away and glasgow and west coast of scotland turns into a gleefull , peacefull paradise where the citizens hold hands and skip down buchanan street.

No one is saying that. Glasgow has many problems not just sectarianism.

Bigotry wouldn't be as commonplace or 'normalised' if you like as there wouldn't be such an easy means to express it.

[Venti]

Think I speak for most non-OF posters when I say we will never understand the 'bigotry/sectarianism/hatred' element.

Our rival is St Mirren & I don't hate them. (Even when bricks get launched at Cartsdyke)

It's a natural rivalry. Without coming across as self righteous, I respect them

Sadly we don't play them as often anymore. But I'd rather have a pint with the Paisley Buddies than a bitter OF fan anyday.

[Monkey Tennis]

let me guess rangers and celtic go away and glasgow and west coast of scotland turns into a gleefull , peacefull paradise where the citizens hold hands and skip down buchanan street.

God No.

You're still Glaswegians. You'll still top tables for violent crime while telling us how friendly and funny you all are all the time.

However, within a generation or two, sectarianism will be on the wane.

[bennett]

I'll never complain again about the whole it's the same club - NAW IT ISNAE!!!!!!!!!!!! routine again.

Come back Densboy, all is forgiven.