Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[WhiteRoseKillie]

This is from Nil by mouth.

Is it really that hard to just accept that these terms are deemed offensive in an unacceptable way, is it really that hard to simply not to use them?

As was the definition of sectarianism which I posted earlier. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to when a football club became a religion?

[Ken Fitlike]

Tom English column......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29153590

(for those vikings who can't follow links....)

Rangers' beleaguered fans taken back to the bad old days

Rafat Rizvi's reappearance in the Rangers narrative was so strange, and such a throwback to earlier slapstick at Ibrox, that you half expected him to be dropped off at Murray Park in one of Bill Miller's tow trucks driven by a porn star from a Paul Baxendale Walker movie with Mr Custard, the unwitting clown, blowing up balloons in the passenger seat.

Rangers have so many horrors going on in the here and now they didn't need any old ones revisiting them.

The sight of Rizvi on the front page of the Daily Record on Wednesday, chuckling in the company of director Sandy Easdale, could scarcely have been any more chilling for the club's beleaguered support had Craig Whyte been snapped in the background jumping into a taxi with the contents of the Ibrox trophy room in a large sack.

Rizvi protests his innocence but the fact is that Interpol are on his case, and have been for some time.

He is wanted in Indonesia for alleged corruption, money laundering and various banking crimes that could carry a prison tariff of 15 years if he ever ventured back there and was found guilty.

Rangers director Sandy Easdale has come under fire from the club's fans in te past week

He flits about the UK and Singapore, two countries where there is no extradition partnerships with Indonesia. In the weighty catalogue of characters that have made Rangers' fans blood boil over the last two-and-a-half years, Rizvi has his place.

He's maybe not among the A-list villains but, to the fans, his presence anywhere near Rangers' property is about as welcome a development as news of a testimonial game for Charles Green.

The story on Wednesday had it that Rizvi was some kind of middle man for a Malaysian big-hitter, a prospective purchaser of Rangers by the name of Datuk Faizoull Bin Ahmad, whose current involvement in football is as chairman of the Malaysian Super League club Felda United.

On Wednesday evening, Rangers sought to clarify matters. Bin Ahmad was not in town to discuss future investment in Rangers, said a statement from Ibrox. Rather, he was in Glasgow as part of a potential youth development initiative between Rangers and Felda United.

That's a 13,000-mile round trip from Felda's home on the west coast of Malaysia. For what, exactly?

We have to presume - and maybe it's an unwise presumption - that it's not Rangers who are hoping to learn about youth development from Felda, but the other way around. That said, is there a whole lot to learn?

Rangers' youth structure - or, to give it its more rightful name, Lewis Macleod - isn't exactly a model for any club, not even one as modest as Felda. Even most Rangers fans would surely agree with that, given the fact that the lack of development of young players at Murray Park is one of their great bugbears of recent years.

If these Malaysians really wanted to learn about developing youth, Auchenhowie wasn't exactly the most logical starting point.

With their supposed wealth, you might think that, er, Barcelona could have been a slightly better destination. Or Ajax. Or dozens of other places. Going to Rangers to learn about the art of nurturing young players and turning them into marketable first-teamers is like going to a haystack in search of a needle.

Scepticism is an essential tool when you're trying to analyse what is going on at Rangers. You hear so much and so little of it turns out to be true - or wholly true. There's bitter in-fighting and so many agendas that you'd go cross-eyed trying to track. The club is in a parlous state, coughing and wheezing towards its next bailout that will keep the lights on a little while longer, but with no long-term plan, no vision, no unity, no leadership.

Rizvi's cameo is the calamity in microcosm. Sandy Easdale said in December that he had nothing to do with Rizvi. He said he had no dealings with him, ever. In the wake of the picture, and the story, that placed them together at Ibrox and Murray Park (discussing youth development with the great explorer Bin Ahmad), Rangers stated that they had no "prior knowledge" that Rizvi was going to be part of Bin Ahmad's delegation.

Even if you take that at face value, it's odd. No prior knowledge? Fine. But when Rizvi turned up at the door at Rangers, what did the club do? Tell him to sling his hook? Make it abundantly clear to him that he's a discredited individual with strong links to Charles Green, Imran Ahmad and assorted alleged crimes in Indonesia?

It would appear not. Not even in their statement of Wednesday afternoon did Rangers seek to put distance between the club and Rizvi, as they knew the supporters would have wanted them to. Their statement just said that they hadn't expected him. Nothing else. Not a line about a man who is wanted by Interpol not being welcome at Rangers. Not a suggestion that he has no place at the club, even as a day-tripper, if, indeed, that's what he was.

Rangers fans could be forgiven for having a fatalistic attitude about the future of their club given the things that have gone on - and are continuing to go on.

The collective of supporters - the Union of Fans - issued a statement of their own on Wednesday night. It was an understandable, if plaintive, cry to the Rangers board to "take the necessary steps for the immediate removal of Sandy Easdale as a director of Rangers Football Club".

It went on to call on the key men at Ibrox to "act immediately to disassociate the PLC board from this further attempt to involve Rizvi in Rangers' affairs".

Rangers declined to comment on the fans' statement. They're silent on Rizvi and silent on those calling for reassurance that Rizvi is not part of their present or their future. Sometimes you can tell a lot by silence

[MikeyWellFan]

Rangers fans

'No one likes us we don't care'

but we do really.

Edited September 11, 2014 by MikeyWellFan

[forever_blue]

f**k knows how it changed sides and am i offended by it? no not really but the laws in this country state it is an offensive term so there is not really an arguement there.

I am regulary called an orange, proddy, masonic, rangers zombie etc b*****d by some of my celtic supporting mates, its water of a ducks back as it is is just meaningless banter however I have also been called them in an abusive manner aswell however my best reply is always " hawl, am no a b*****d" .

[stonedsailor]

Having been brought up in the protestant faith am I allowed to use the word hvn in the same way persons of African descent can alter the derogatory term to nigga and my traveller mates calling themselves tinks?

8 and Tedi are you my hvn brethren? I take it you have no objection?

I still think that the term only applies to Rangers fans and those who tupe'd over to Rangers Inter.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

The difference is that those other filter words will not get you banned from P & B nor will they get you warnings, the posts will also be deleted, basically you have to be a right cvnt to get banned from here.

Keep using the word which is derogatory sectarian insult and you will be warned and banned for being a bigot, which of course you are.

Well, it's just a good thing you're not the type to go crying to the Mods, then.

Explain how the term is sectarian?

[Austin McCann]

Utter bollix ... football fans have never used it other than as a derogatory insult to the smelly hordes that infest Ayepox.

The link to Protestants was invented by your own faux outraged supporters ...

As WRK stated .... of course it's offensive ... just not sectarian.

Utter sh*te.

[forever_blue]

Having been brought up in the protestant faith am I allowed to use the word hvn in the same way persons of African descent can alter the derogatory term to nigga and my traveller mates calling themselves tinks?

8 and Tedi are you my hvn brethren? I take it you have no objection?

I still think that the term only applies to Rangers fans and those who tupe'd over to Rangers Inter.

tbh rangers fans do not label themselves h-u-ns so its not comparable as for the f word which ryhmes with greenyin that is perfectly comparable to the situation . celtic fans have no problem describing themselves a (insert f word here) , infact they even have songs to celebrate this such as paddy mcourts (insert f word here) army , however should anyone else call them this word then they dont like it.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

f**k knows how it changed sides and am i offended by it? no not really but the laws in this country state it is an offensive term so there is not really an arguement there.

I am regulary called an orange, proddy, masonic, rangers zombie etc b*****d by some of my celtic supporting mates, its water of a ducks back as it is is just meaningless banter however I have also been called them in an abusive manner aswell however my best reply is always " hawl, am no a b*****d" .

It's offensive - I think we've established that that is the point. Unlike "orange", "proddy", or even "masonic", however, it is a term exclusively used for those connected with a football team. If you're going to argue that the word "hún" is sectarian, then you are de facto admitting that the rangers is a discriminatory organisation. Happy enough for your brand new club to be labelled as bigoted? Keep on being offended by the currant word.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I never mentioned football club, you did.

I don't recall saying you mentioned football club. I asked you a question. In what way is the rangers, or was rangers, a religion?

[cyderspaceman]

I always had them linked with Attila the H.un and rampaging hordes along with the limited IQ .... what it had to do with religion or sectarianism god alone knows ... Even Youngsy admits it was a term the currants labelled Celtic fans before it stuck fast with them.

Attila the Thingmy sounds feasible.

Gengis Khan also had a horde but I'm absolutely 100% totally certain we couldn't get away with calling them 'Mongs'............

[forever_blue]

It's offensive - I think we've established that that is the point. Unlike "orange", "proddy", or even "masonic", however, it is a term exclusively used for those connected with a football team. If you're going to argue that the word "hún" is sectarian, then you are de facto admitting that the rangers is a discriminatory organisation. Happy enough for your brand new club to be labelled as bigoted? Keep on being offended by the currant word.

i clearly stated earlier on that the word does not really offend me , infact iit used to be the celtic fans nicknames untill around the 60's and 70's due to their supporters antics during ww2 and general anti britishness.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Nil by mouth state the word is sectarian in origin, I happen to agree with them as do the moderators of P & B, frankly I do not care what you believe, you are wrong (and a bigot)

and yes i will happily report those that use it.

Examples of my so-called "bigotry"? None what-so-fucking-ever. I detest both the clubs you've followed*, and their former business partners, largely because they foster neanderthal attitudes in order to keep the cash coming in.

*Not a reference to Arbroath.

[forever_blue]

It's offensive - I think we've established that that is the point. Unlike "orange", "proddy", or even "masonic", however, it is a term exclusively used for those connected with a football team. If you're going to argue that the word "hún" is sectarian, then you are de facto admitting that the rangers is a discriminatory organisation. Happy enough for your brand new club to be labelled as bigoted? Keep on being offended by the currant word.

also the fact is in the laws of this country it is deemd as an offensive word, I if you want to argue with the law be my guest wrk but as the old saying goes "rules are rules" wether you like them or not

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I never claimed it was a religion.

“Narrow-minded beliefs that lead to prejudice, discrimination, malice and ill-will towards members, or presumed members, of a religious denomination.”

That is Nil By Mouth's definition of "sectarian". I ask again, what religion is rangers?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

also the fact is in the laws of this country it is deemd as an offensive word, I if you want to argue with the law be my guest wrk but as the old saying goes "rules are rules" wether you like them or not

"cúnt" is an offensive word as well. And equally sectarian. As I'm sure you're aware, or possibly not, there have been court cases in Scotland which have deemed, in context, the use of the word as sectarian. There have also been cases where it has been deemed not to be sectarian.

You can sometimes produced reasoned argument, so maybe you can help Tedi's struggle here - when did rangers become a religion?

Or, here's another way you could bolster the argument for the word being sectarian - provide a few examples where people have been referred to as "húns" which don't involve the rangers or rangers.

ETA: The laws of which country, btw? Chuck up a few references to court judgments regarding innocent protestants being abused in England or Wales - that might convince me..

Edited September 11, 2014 by WhiteRoseKillie

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Every time you call one of your fellow posters by that term you are displaying your bigotry, this is what I believe, this is what nil by mouth agrees and this is what the moderators of this forum believe.

Your unwillingness to accept this is quite irrelevant I am afraid.

I cannot stop you from using the term, pretty much like you cannot stop me from reporting you each time you do.

The term, as used by football supporters*, refers to those connected with clubs at ibrox. For this to be sectarian, those clubs would have to exclusively represent, or cleave to, one particular sect. You and yours continually claim this is not the case.

*It is also a name for a nomadic tribe of the early centuries of the C.E., and an epithet applied to German forces during a couple of 20th century wars. I think we can agree this is not relevant.

[forever_blue]

"cúnt" is an offensive word as well. And equally sectarian. As I'm sure you're aware, or possibly not, there have been court cases in Scotland which have deemed, in context, the use of the word as sectarian. There have also been cases where it has been deemed not to be sectarian.

You can sometimes produced reasoned argument, so maybe you can help Tedi's struggle here - when did rangers become a religion?

Or, here's another way you could bolster the argument for the word being sectarian - provide a few examples where people have been referred to as "húns" which don't involve the rangers or rangers.

the word does not overly offend me to be honest however my point is that in the laws of this country for some reason or another it has been deemed offensive under the new anti bigotry bill which was brought in which I thought was a sham to begin with . wether you agree with it or not that is the fact and sate of the situation. I think you have been picking my arguement up wrong recently.

as for the rangers as a religion , i have no clue what you are harping on abaout there so sorry.

I have heard orange walks being described as h-u-n walks and churches being refereed to as h-u-n churches before aswell in relation to your last question about when hearing it out of a footballing context.

[Ken Fitlike]

http://uokhun.tumblr.com/

[No8.]

Utter sh*te.

Of ciurse it is utter shite. The team that clown supports call Herats the mini h word. This is purely down to Hearts being seen , rightly or wrongly, as the 'Protestant club' in Edinburgh.

Wrk it is you who keeps bringing up the football angle. I have shown that grafiti is daubed on the walls of Orange halls and Protestant Churches. If it is nothing to with religion why is that term used?