Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[No8.]

A boy on the phone in the other night said there were 18 people on the Rangers bench at Dumbarton...18!!!

McCoist..

Durrant.

Kenny Clipboard

Jimmy Bell..to make sure the players coming off get their arms in the right sleeves of their jackets

Physio.

Doctor.

The 2 fannies that are supposed to do the warming up before the game and at half time as The manager and his 2 assts. couldn't possibly be expected to do that on the pittance of pay they get.

7 players.

Jim Stewart....and 2 others who nobody knew who they were.

That is bad enough in The Championship but we have had these hangers on since the 4th tier of Scottish football. If Ashleys men wanted to cut costs ..really cut costs they would chase the cheeky chappy and his mates all the way down PRW!!

If the office staff etc have to go that is fair enough. We need to cut costs and do it now but they need to start with the ones guilty of stealing wages. Jimmy Bell , at least one of the fitness coaches and at least one of the Asst Managers.

[williemillersmoustache]

Ashley will just get them re-hired on zero-hours contracts.

[No8.]

seriously though how much money are they going to save by paying off back ground people?

Probably less than they will pay for a night in Turnberry Hotel before we play the Mighty Stranraer or The Carnoustie Hotel before we lose to fucking Forfar!!

Heaven forbid our overpaid players had to spend more than an hour in the new luxury bus that we have.

[No8.]

Ashley will just get them re-hired on zero-hours contracts.

That would suit the manager. He has done Zero hours work for a couple of years now!!

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Ashley will just get them re-hired on zero-hours contracts.

That's where it gets a wee bit dodgy (yeah, yeah, at Ibrox - hoodathunkit?). If a job is declared redundant, then you can't hire someone to do the same job. Obviously, the easy way is to just rename the position, but it can get the employer into trouble if the employee who's been got rid of wants to take action. This only applies in the case of compulsory redundancies, obviously. Edited November 19, 2014 by WhiteRoseKillie

[Jacksgranda]

BBC Scotland news this morning saying that more redundancies are expected. Worrying news for those impacted, especially at this time of the year.

However, you've got to assume these folk were actually doing something for their pay and that these 'somethings' will no longer be done. Does that mean that the toilets will only be cleaned once a week instead of every 2 weeks, that the publicity department will be issuing fewer updates (when was their last one, anyone remember?) or that tax returns will only be completed every second year?

Maybe other clubs will try this revolutionary approach of getting twice as much work done with less staff

[Sons]

A boy on the phone in the other night said there were 18 people on the Rangers bench at Dumbarton...18!!!

McCoist..

Durrant.

Kenny Clipboard

Jimmy Bell..to make sure the players coming off get their arms in the right sleeves of their jackets

Physio.

Doctor.

The 2 fannies that are supposed to do the warming up before the game and at half time as The manager and his 2 assts. couldn't possibly be expected to do that on the pittance of pay they get.

7 players.

Jim Stewart....and 2 others who nobody knew who they were.

That is bad enough in The Championship but we have had these hangers on since the 4th tier of Scottish football. If Ashleys men wanted to cut costs ..really cut costs they would chase the cheeky chappy and his mates all the way down PRW!!

If the office staff etc have to go that is fair enough. We need to cut costs and do it now but they need to start with the ones guilty of stealing wages. Jimmy Bell , at least one of the fitness coaches and at least one of the Asst Managers.

this is true No8 dont know if there was 18 mind you but it wasn't far off that. saying that if you have managed to name then there must have been. there was that many of them the ref had to go over and tell two or three of them head back in. wasnt enough seats in the dug out so they were hanging around like it was a bus stop. couldnt tell you who they were never seen them before. one of them had long grey hair glasses and a mouser/goate hybrid thing going on. the other one looked like a big galoot

all aboard the gravy train it seems.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

2 and a half years and over 6,000 pages in and we still have fantasists claiming that Rangers were in a decent financial state before Craig Whyte's takeover for £1 (Yes, £1!). Throughout this thread these claims have been debunked time and time again yet the usual suspects keep coming back with the exact same 'evidence' to 'prove' that they are correct. Youngsy's magical £18million bank debt being comparable to £53million total liabilities being a favourite of mine, trotted out repeatedly even though he has been told his comparison is utter bollocks again and again.

Anyway, to show how brilliant a state Ranger's accounts (© Tedi) were in to June 2010 I have calculated Altman's Z'-score.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altman_Z-score#Z-score_estimated_for_private_firms

To sum up it is a test on the likelihood of bankruptcy within the next two years. You put figures from the accounts into a formula and depending on the result you can decide if a company is going tits up or not. I got taught this in advanced finance so it isn't some pie in the sky theory, it is derived through genuine statistically based analysis and used in the finance industry.

Having done the calculation Ranger's score at 30th June 2010 was 0.91. Anything below 1.23 is a firm in distress, between 1.23 and 2.9 is a grey area, and above 2.9 the company is safe. So accordingly Rangers were a basket case before Craig Whyte took over.

I apologise in advance for actually using some knowledge of finance and expect irrelevant (in isolation), cherry picked numbers to be plucked out of the accounts in reply.

[No8.]

If they were really serious about cutting costs they would get rid of McCoist, Durrant and McDowall and let the likes of Kenny Miller have the job as player manager till the end of the season, he certainly could not do any worse.

I was talking to my mate last night and he has stuck by him all the way and even he is now at the stage where it actually looks nigh on impossible to do a worse job.

I still cannot believe it took a suspension to get that useless b*****d that is Mohsni out that starting XI. If it wasn't for that i am convinced he would still be in that team!!

McCoist changed the game once this season and that was against QoS. Moving Jig back and putting Black into the middle is what won that game for Rangers but looking back now even that night he should have taken Mohsni off instead of Zal. It had been Mohsni who was at fault for both goals and i don't think Zal has had a chance since that game

[No8.]

the other one looked like a big galoot

all aboard the gravy train it seems.

That isn't really narrowing it down much

[AberdeenBud]

2 and a half years and over 6,000 pages in and we still have fantasists claiming that Rangers were in a decent financial state before Craig Whyte's takeover for £1 (Yes, £1!). Throughout this thread these claims have been debunked time and time again yet the usual suspects keep coming back with the exact same 'evidence' to 'prove' that they are correct. Youngsy's magical £18million bank debt being comparable to £53million total liabilities being a favourite of mine, trotted out repeatedly even though he has been told his comparison is utter bollocks again and again.

Anyway, to show how brilliant a state Ranger's accounts (© Tedi) were in to June 2010 I have calculated Altman's Z'-score.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altman_Z-score#Z-score_estimated_for_private_firms

To sum up it is a test on the likelihood of bankruptcy within the next two years. You put figures from the accounts into a formula and depending on the result you can decide if a company is going tits up or not. I got taught this in advanced finance so it isn't some pie in the sky theory, it is derived through genuine statistically based analysis and used in the finance industry.

Having done the calculation Ranger's score at 30th June 2010 was 0.91. Anything below 1.23 is a firm in distress, between 1.23 and 2.9 is a grey area, and above 2.9 the company is safe. So accordingly Rangers were a basket case before Craig Whyte took over.

I apologise in advance for actually using some knowledge of finance and expect irrelevant (in isolation), cherry picked numbers to be plucked out of the accounts in reply.

Zing.

[No8.]

He just will not take the decisions needed, McGregor has been brilliant but Jig is still the weak link in that defence, I don't really rate Zal but at least he is a proper defender, Jig should be on the bench and coming on for Daly around 65 mins, Boyd needs dropped, it obvious to everyone.

I thought Zal was decent enough at Hearts and would at least give him a run alongside McGregor.

Not sure if he will start Boyd against Hearts. Then again he doesn't usually try anything different which is another one of his downfalls. Everybody knows exactly what they are going to be up against

[AberdeenBud]

Pity Joey is just doing what he is accusing others of, spinning figures to suit his argument agenda, while I am sticking to the facts.

The company DID make a very healthy profit over an 18 month period.

The debt WAS reduced to £18.1M

The club could not find a buyer due to to the £100M + Tax bill (other liabilities) hanging over its head, this Tax bill turned out to be bollix.

You did take umbrage at my description of RFC as being in a parlous financial state(ala a basket case) in 2011.

Regardless of the tax case RFC would still have been liquidated. This was a fait accompli, well admin was anyway, as soon as McCoist failed in Europe.

[Romeo]

I assume sevco fans will be down at the stadium letting those in charge know that the playing & coaching staff should be cut instead of the other workers on very low wages?

Right?

[aofjays]

Pity Joey is just doing what he is accusing others of, spinning figures to suit his argument agenda, while I am sticking to the facts.

The company DID make a very healthy profit over an 18 month period.

The debt WAS reduced to £18.1M

The club could not find a buyer due to to the £100M + Tax bill (other liabilities) hanging over its head, this Tax bill turned out to be bollix (yeah I know appeal no 95 is still under way)

"The joint administrators have adjudicated on these claims and confirmed to HMRC that for voting purposes, their claim will be admitted for voting purposes at £94,426,217.22."

The majority of that figure relates to the old company's use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs), on which HMRC claimed unpaid tax and penalties in excess of £49m.

Now if you ignore the EBT money completely, real Rangers still owed over 45 million to the tax man. They were totally screwed.

[bennett]

Now if you ignore the EBT money completely, real Rangers still owed over 45 million to the tax man. They were totally screwed.

Seems rather high to me, when Rangers entered admin it was with a tax bill of around £9m pus the WTC of around £3m, did it really jump to £45m in that time?

D&P did drag things on and allowed the unpaid tax to escalate and make liquidation easier but that still sems a bit OTT to me.

[bennett]

You did take umbrage at my description of RFC as being in a parlous financial state(ala a basket case) in 2011.

Regardless of the tax case RFC would still have been liquidated. This was a fait accompli, well admin was anyway, as soon as McCoist failed in Europe.

Well if you take away the Tax case it would have been unlikely that Whyte would have been able to buy the club and the fraud would have been avoided.

I may be reading your post wrong as i haven't read back yet.

[bennett]

He just will not take the decisions needed, McGregor has been brilliant but Jig is still the weak link in that defence, I don't really rate Zal but at least he is a proper defender, Jig should be on the bench and coming on for Daly around 65 mins, Boyd needs dropped, it obvious to everyone.

McCulloch should not be played in defence, he needs to play Macleod in the middle and make a decision regarding Black and Law.

[dirty dingus]

2 and a half years and over 6,000 pages in and we still have fantasists claiming that Rangers were in a decent financial state before Craig Whyte's takeover for £1 (Yes, £1!). Throughout this thread these claims have been debunked time and time again yet the usual suspects keep coming back with the exact same 'evidence' to 'prove' that they are correct. Youngsy's magical £18million bank debt being comparable to £53million total liabilities being a favourite of mine, trotted out repeatedly even though he has been told his comparison is utter bollocks again and again.

Anyway, to show how brilliant a state Ranger's accounts (© Tedi) were in to June 2010 I have calculated Altman's Z'-score.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altman_Z-score#Z-score_estimated_for_private_firms

To sum up it is a test on the likelihood of bankruptcy within the next two years. You put figures from the accounts into a formula and depending on the result you can decide if a company is going tits up or not. I got taught this in advanced finance so it isn't some pie in the sky theory, it is derived through genuine statistically based analysis and used in the finance industry.

Having done the calculation Ranger's score at 30th June 2010 was 0.91. Anything below 1.23 is a firm in distress, between 1.23 and 2.9 is a grey area, and above 2.9 the company is safe. So accordingly Rangers were a basket case before Craig Whyte took over.

I apologise in advance for actually using some knowledge of finance and expect irrelevant (in isolation), cherry picked numbers to be plucked out of the accounts in reply.

An educated and erudite TELT.

[dave.j]

Whilst the company was being ran by a fraudster, sorry anything that happened after he took over cannot be really be counted, things would have been entirely different if the club had been getting run by a genuine buyer non fraudster type person.

No evidence to suggest that be the case.