forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What did they say? i was secterianly abused in leith last season by a local leith ned cruizing in his mates motor who took great delight in winding down the window and informing me that i was a dirty oranger barsteward as i crossed the road behind the car he was travelling. my drunken response was a laugh and then saying something along the lines of his maw being a spoon burning cow though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 As a Rangers supporter who has followed the club for more than 40 years i think i have a far better grasp of the problem than some pocheen drinking Yokel from darkest Dumfrieshire. Rangers have had problems in the past with a certain section of their support...I was part of the problem for a while...Most of these supporters. The vast majority of these supporters came from our support from West of Scotland and certain parts of Lanarkshire. You will find most Rangers supporters outwith these areas have very little interest in the sectairan issue. To claim the problems brought over by the Irish immigrant community wouldn't exist without the 'Old Firm' is just beyond ridiculous. I was a member of a Loyalist Flute Band for many years and in our numbers we had 3 or 4 Rangers season ticket holders. So in the same post you wish to imply that I come from a backward place while highlighting the prevalence of sectarianism elsewhere. Tell me, does that begin to make some sense, even in the conflict ridden little spot that is your brain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 To suggest the Old Firm haven't contributed massively to problem of sectarianism in Scotland is ridiculous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 To suggest the Old Firm haven't contributed massively to problem of sectarianism in Scotland is ridiculous. Yip, and yet that's exactly what some of them are doing. It's beyond stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Be warned however, that doing so will make you look ridiculous. Having an opinion which differs from yours does not make that opinion ridiculous. You're getting to be almost as pompous as Norman is... Yip, and yet that's exactly what some of them are doing. It's beyond stupid. Mikey is trolling and you are being serious. Wow... Edited July 29, 2014 by bennett 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Having an opinion which differs from yours does not make that opinion ridiculous. In this instance, it absolutely does. I'm basically arguing that night follows day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'd say it's more chicken and egg ... i would say it is more fish and chips 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Having an opinion which differs from yours does not make that opinion ridiculous. There is such a thing as a ridiculous opinion though. I think St. Mirren are going to win the league this season. ^^^ ridiculous opinion ^^^ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Sorted .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 To suggest the Old Firm haven't contributed massively to problem of sectarianism in Scotland is ridiculous. i think it is more down to scotland/glasgow creating the sectarian tensions and divide which engulfed the old firm and created the conditions for them to thrive as some sort of political and religous symbols tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 not really a surprise considering how people can be conditioned to think a certain way, its not always the weak willed either. we are being continually bombarded with information that shapes our thoughts and opinions, i'm talking about everyone not just football fans. we are all manipulated continually, most of the time we are unaware of it. you only have to see how throughout history how people can be influenced and manipulated to behave the way those with influence and power over them want. You have to gather the strength to see past the information bombardment and think for yourself. Next you'll be believing the same club nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 i think it is more down to scotland/glasgow creating the sectarian tensions and divide which engulfed the old firm and created the conditions for them to thrive as some sort of political and religous symbols tbh. Ok that's fine but To suggest the Old Firm haven't contributed massively to problem of sectarianism in Scotland is ridiculous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I love it when Rangers and Celtic fans stick up for each other and their traditions. Always nice to be reminded that they're two cheeks of the same arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ok that's fine but As I have said without rangers or celtic the communities would have probably clung onto something else and sectarianism would have still thrived. Your point about Scotland not having a conflict like Northern Ireland is true but the immigrants who came to Scotland from Northern Ireland will have experienced these conflicts before moving to Scotland as the Catholics and Protestants have been at each other's throats in the north of Ireland for nigh on 400 years and not just since some guys started jumping about with balaclavas in the 1960's. So that resentment would have been carried over with them along with the resentment already existing in Scotland at the time due to the rise of immigration and Catholicism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 As I have said without rangers or celtic the communities would have probably clung onto something else and sectarianism would have still thrived. Your point about Scotland not having a conflict like Northern Ireland is true but the immigrants who came to Scotland from Northern Ireland will have experienced these conflicts before moving to Scotland as the Catholics and Protestants have been at each other's throats in the north of Ireland for nigh on 400 years and not just since some guys started jumping about with balaclavas in the 1960's. So that resentment would have been carried over with them along with the resentment already existing in Scotland at the time due to the rise of immigration and Catholicism. What else would they have clung onto though? Lodge membership and the like has always been marginal and I would argue would be more marginal without Rangers. The whole culture is intertwined with football as is tribalism. Rangers and Celtic are very easy ways of expressing who you are and what tribe you belong to. If it wasn't so easy it would die out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) To suggest the Old Firm haven't contributed massively to problem of sectarianism in Scotland is ridiculous. This. Back in the day, when marketing through fear was the big psychological breakthrough in advertising, there was a fear in the West of Scotland (probably the whole of Scotland South of Pitlochry) about the happenings on the big Island west of the Hebrides. Two companies were visionary enough to latch on to this fear based marketing and built successful football clubs by selling the fear of the other getting bigger and better to easily manipulated locals and attaching that fear to a real and present danger just across the water. The success of this marketing led to a deepening of the connection between an unrelated football club and the events across the way. Marketing strategies such as "the policy" were then used to solidify fear and hatred creating more wealth for those who pushed this marketing strategy. The strategy also spread on a lesser scale to other cities but never took such a deep rooted grip of the fan populations however it can still be seen, to a lesser extent normally and on an increased scale when the relevant OF club comes to town, in other clubs to this day. The victims are the fans of these two clubs, people who might never have been involved have had their love of football twisted into a socio-political marketing strategy and as such have been turned into vile examples of human beings and all of their offspring have been exposed too. A marketing strategy to sell tickets to watch a sport has created generations of sub standard thinking in football fans. Edited July 29, 2014 by stonedsailor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 the clubs assets shrinking cause the board are incapable of finding investment? gamble away the albion car park, edmiston house and now murray park on the club's short term future this mess is going to be around for years and getting back up into the premiership will not magically solve everything ffs the club will end up the size of partick thistle at this rate, a once great institution reduced to just surviving year in year out and what happens the following season when all the assets are sold off trying to challenge celtic? why not make your next ambition to 'challenge Partick Thistle' and run your affairs prudently? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 media plays a huge part where people jump on the bandwagon of the writer or speaker and those views held and then without filtering and thinking insert those opinions to become their own, simply because the writer/speaker is media and can be trusted automatically therefore is correct. it is entirely selective of course based on the viewer/listener's values and opinions held previously. i'm not attempting to be a smart arse here, i just think its worth stepping back and reading why a piece of news/advertising/info has been released, but then most of us don't have the time or ability to check everything that fast. i think on the bralt some folks try to read between the lines, whether the conclusions are right or wrong at least those posters are attempting to think and making an attempt to filter through the mud to find truths and lies. i suppose its also down to what you want to believe. Reality exists only in the mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What else would they have clung onto though? Lodge membership and the like has always been marginal and I would argue would be more marginal without Rangers. The whole culture is intertwined with football as is tribalism. Rangers and Celtic are very easy ways of expressing who you are and what tribe you belong to. If it wasn't so easy it would die out. The orange lodge , political movements or maybe even violence. As you have said following rangers or Celtic was the easy way to show your tribalism , identity and culture without that the next easiest thing would have been what would have attracted something which people would have believed to best represent their views. With the Protestants this would have probably been the orange lodge and with that the Catholics would have probably had a stronger organisation or movement of their own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyWellFan Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 why not make your next ambition to 'challenge Partick Thistle' and run your affairs prudently? Could you imagine some of their fans if this happened? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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