Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[No8.]

So in the same post you wish to imply that I come from a backward place while highlighting the prevalence of sectarianism elsewhere.

Tell me, does that begin to make some sense, even in the conflict ridden little spot that is your brain?

So sectarianism is not prevalent in your local town?

[Monkey Tennis]

The orange lodge , political movements or maybe even violence. As you have said following rangers or Celtic was the easy way to show your tribalism , identity and culture without that the next easiest thing would have been what would have attracted something which people would have believed to best represent their views. With the Protestants this would have probably been the orange lodge and with that the Catholics would have probably had a stronger organisation or movement of their own.

I don't agree. We're an advanced, left leaning country, one in which most forms of bigotry and unthinking prejudice have come to be frowned upon, legislated against and marginalised.

However, we can still have gatherings of over 30,000 people where huge numbers can sing about ****** blood in an environment which they feel - and that ultimately does - permit it ( I'm thinking here of the Christmas time fixture away at QP 18 months ago).

No such arena for the expression of such ant-social sentiment otherwise exists. Football sustains this.

It's pretty damn obvious.

[Monkey Tennis]

So sectarianism is not prevalent in your local town?

Not especially no.

That would suggest to me that we're less backward than places where it is.

[Monkey Tennis]

Sectarianism exists outwith the space that was the Old Firm and 'it' attached itself to the Old Firm .. The Old Firm didn't contribute anything ...

...and yet one of them adopted a sectarian signing policy.

Cute that you wish to defend it though.

[MikeyWellFan]

The orange lodge , political movements or maybe even violence. As you have said following rangers or Celtic was the easy way to show your tribalism , identity and culture without that the next easiest thing would have been what would have attracted something which people would have believed to best represent their views. With the Protestants this would have probably been the orange lodge and with that the Catholics would have probably had a stronger organisation or movement of their own.

But without such an easy means to express yourself the hate and division would have died out.

Instead of sat side by side supporting a team you are set against eachother and the Old Firm have exploited this centuries old divide for their own profit and have made the country's problem worse in doing so.

Secatrianism will always exist and is a fact of life especially in the west of Scotland but without football tribalism which made it an acceptable culture it would in no way be as widespread as it is today and would have largely died out as with issues like racism.

[stonedsailor]

i was secterianly abused in leith last season by a local leith ned cruizing in his mates motor who took great delight in winding down the window and informing me that i was a dirty oranger barsteward as i crossed the road behind the car he was travelling.

my drunken response was a laugh and then saying something along the lines of his maw being a spoon burning cow though

Reads like a WRK Parkhead trip post to me.

[MikeyWellFan]

The Old Firm didn't contribute anything ... That said neither did they do enough, if anything to weed it out.

Apart from use the division that already existed for marketing purposes.

Both clubs exploited sectarianism to the max. They didn't cause the problem but they have helped fuel the fire for many years.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

i was secterianly abused in leith last season by a local leith ned cruizing in his mates motor who took great delight in winding down the window and informing me that i was a dirty oranger barsteward as i crossed the road behind the car he was travelling.

my drunken response was a laugh and then saying something along the lines of his maw being a spoon burning cow though

How exactly did he know you were (in his mind) a legitimate target for that particular insult?

[MikeyWellFan]

Sing that at Ibrox and you will get horsed out and told never to come back...that is reality of where we are today, not 20 years ago.

But sing it at Hampden and you'll be fine?

[stonedsailor]

Apart from use the division that already existed for marketing purposes.

Both clubs exploited sectarianism to the max. They didn't cause the problem but they have helped fuel the fire for many years.

Without that fuel they would have run out of steam years ago. The dying out of sectarianism, it is dying, has already seen one of those clubs die and it's replacement failing badly.

[kildog]

...and yet one of them adopted a sectarian signing policy.

Cute that you wish to defend it though.

It's classic stuff.

[stonedsailor]

as does religion

....and the baggage that follows it around

You are conversing with a confirmed atheist.

FWIW I like blue, it's my favourite colour but your posts do my head in. I wish they never because, now that I am taking notice, I like your way of thinking and writing. Drop the crayola sponsorship.

[aofjays]

But sing it at Hampden and you'll be fine?

Celtic Park a few weeks beforehand as well.

[forever_blue]

I don't agree. We're an advanced, left leaning country, one in which most forms of bigotry and unthinking prejudice have come to be frowned upon, legislated against and marginalised.

However, we can still have gatherings of over 30,000 people where huge numbers can sing about ****** blood in an environment which they feel - and that ultimately does - permit it ( I'm thinking here of the Christmas time fixture away at QP 18 months ago).

No such arena for the expression of such ant-social sentiment otherwise exists. Football sustains this.

It's pretty damn obvious.

We obviously can't be that advanced a country if you believe that we would let football dictate a bitter sectarian divide. If rangers and Celtic had never been around then other organisations would have been clung onto and passed down to the next generation, the songs would have still been sung it just so happened that as already put football was an easy way for people to gather and express their political views.

Scotland has always been a left leaning country but the difference is particularly with Glasgow and the surrounding areas the role of Irish immigration both the Protestants and Catholics who came over played in shaping the Glasgow we know today, and as already put these people brought their politics, culture and resentment for the other community with them. Is it not something like 1 third of Glasgow population has direct Irish background? The tensions created by the role of this huge influx of immigration would have thrived regardless of wether rangers and Celtic existed or not. It would be the equivalent of 200, 000 Iraqi immigrants moving to Glasgow in the next few months with a mixture of Sunni and shiit Muslims, do you believe that the resentment felt by these two communities towards each other would be eradicated within 100 years of living in Scotland?

[MikeyWellFan]

I expected the SFA to do something, they did f**k all, they never take action against Dundee or any of the other clubs who sing about being up to their knees in some groups blood either.

But but but they do it aswell.

Embarrassing.

If it's unacceptable at Ibrox nowadays why did it get sung at Hampden? What's the difference?

[williemillersmoustache]

Sing that at Ibrox and you will get horsed out and told never to come back...that is reality of where we are today, not 20 years ago.

I was at Dens a few weeks ago, they were singing the same tune but this time it was arab blood, the majority were singing it, the Man city fans replied with their own version and again they were up to their knees in some groups blood.

I look forward to you condemning all these fans too.

Both armed forces shambles seem pretty recent. Can't remember seeing anyone horsed out and told never to come back. Do you?

[stonedsailor]

But but but they do it aswell.

Embarrassing.

If it's unacceptable at Ibrox nowadays why did it get sung at Hampden? What's the difference?

More easily identified at their own ground.

[forever_blue]

Celtic Park a few weeks beforehand as well.

when dd we play at celtic park 18 months ago ? aofjays talking shite again ?

[youngsy]

Aw Jesus.

Are you both now seriously claiming that lodge membership etc would be greater, were it not for the existence of Rangers?

Don't be ridiculous. Members of such bodies would be viewed far more widely as the sad inadequates they are, were it not for the existence of a football club which lends such bonkerdom a perceived legitimacy.

Let me put it this way. In 1981 there was an upsurge in membership of both the OO and Republican Associations in the UK, both peaked that year and then dropped off within a two year period. The reason of such an upsurge was down to two reasons, rightly or wrongly. One reason was the hunger strikes another was the impending visit of the Pope in 1982, the reason for the upsurge in membership was nothing whatsoever to do with either club.

Before either club existed there was a greater membership in such organisations than there are now. Whether they would be more widely viewed as inadequates than they are at the moment is not the issue, they would still require a focal point and this would be an outlet for them. As i've said the clubs aren't the cause of sectarianism, certainly over the years they didn't do too much to eradicate it but if both had never been founded there would still have been this problem.

[MikeyWellFan]

That was my original point, it is still very much valid despite your wish to ignore it.

Why can't you address the singing without embarrassing whataboutery?

Why is it acceptable at Hampden but not at Ibrox?