Monkey Tennis Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Of course it does not compare, what I did was actually illegal. To make it even worse I did not even smoke, I sold them for a profit and did not declare that either. Perhaps not your finest hour Ted, but don't beat yourself up about it. There are bigger villains out there, some of them behaving legally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I didn't say that. I'm simply pointing out that the idea that it wasn't intended and received as wages is nonsense. Obviously, legal requirements are more sophisticated than those provided by Dodds. I'm not saying the judgement was wrong. I am saying however that the scheme and it's operation were immoral. I take great delight in the fact that even though deemed legal, the lingering EBTs prompted Murray to welcome Whyte aboard. Yip Murray dumped the club off to Craig Shyte fur a poond the very season the last of the EBT payments were ever issued. June 2011 Rangers made their last EBT payments to the players and Rangers were sold leaving agent Shyte in the shite by having to renegotiate the EBT receiving players contracts so that they kept their mouths shut by taking home the exact same amount of money home as with they got with EBT loans (snigger snigger). The Rangers wage bill shot up by millions during Whyte's tenure even though they didn't make any big marquee signings that season because of the renegotiated EBT contract players. I don't think Minty really wanted to still own Rangers FC after season 2010/2011, because firstly he would have needed to deal with the EBT players contracts to be adjusted legally and would have upped the wage bill by millions when they were in dire straits. Secondly he seen the writing on the wall for the club and needed a patsy to take the fall when the club eventually got liquidated because the money would eventually run out and catch up with them. And lastly he didn't want to be known as the man who killed Rangers by using illegal financial mechanisms, some Rangers fans may argue different but it is what eventually killed the club off facing a tax bill into the tens of millions. The EBT's killed Rangers and is karma come full circle. What we didn't expect or foresee coming was the corrupt associations had already made plans to clone the club and try to con us all with the club is separate from the company ffs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I once deliberately sneeked an extra 200 fags into my suitcase on the way back from Gran Canaria once, morally wrong evader me, but its ok cos I am relatively poor. Its the Rangers way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Its the Rangers way. This will annoy the bears, I have personally skipped into games at Ibrox by not paying at all for OF games, Celtic cup games with some international fixtures whilst Hampdump was being upgraded. I am glad to think that I had a helping hand in the demise of Rangers by not paying them for anything whilst I worked as a cleaner at Ibrox taking money from them. Illegal and immoral and I couldn't give a flying fcuk about it because it helped fcuk over the Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Excuse me again whilst I laugh at Sevco fannies reporting Mike Ashley to the ASA for having a sale...lolacauast! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Excuse me again whilst I laugh at Sevco fannies reporting Mike Ashley to the ASA for having a sale...lolacauast! Remember when the orcs laughed at some Celtic fans reporting their company that runs the club for an advertising campaign ?, hypocrites sounds apt at this time. Is this more embarrassing than the other mobs greeting faced whining at ASA ?, is this a competition by both sets of fans to out fanny the other fannies at anything ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuoAnLai Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Remember when the orcs laughed at some Celtic fans reporting their company that runs the club for an advertising campaign ?, hypocrites sounds apt at this time. Is this more embarrassing than the other mobs greeting faced whining at ASA ?, is this a competition by both sets of fans to out fanny the other fannies at anything ? Same arse, different cheeks. Of course they're going to look alike. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I didn't say that.I'm simply pointing out that the idea that it wasn't intended and received as wages is nonsense.Obviously, legal requirements are more sophisticated than those provided by Dodds.I'm not saying the judgement was wrong. I am saying however that the scheme and it's operation were immoral. I take great delight in the fact that even though deemed legal, the lingering EBTs prompted Murray to welcome Whyte aboard. In order for the EBTs to work, rangers had to lie to the SPL. It wasn't simply immoral, it was flat out deceit. While it has been shown that deadco were able to get away with it, for a time, they were only able to do so while lying and right up until it came under any real scrutiny. If they weren't required to deceive the league body and SFA in order to make it work then maybe they could argue that the money wasn't recoverable. But they were, so you can't. Also let's not forget these were some of the highest paid people in the country, not paying income tax. Got caught, continued to lie, cheat, obfuscate, block and try to arrogantly bluff their way out until the only thing left was to do was sell up to shyster who'd ride the sinking ship down for them. I will not, ever, be browbeaten or dissuaded from thinking that this was a repellent crime against our nation and our beloved sport. That nobody is in jail for this is laughable. The notion that HMRC shouldn't be chasing all these unpaid monies, is beneath contempt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 is this a competition by both sets of fans to out fanny the other fannies at anything ? That particular arms race has been escalating for a long time. It reminds me of the rivalry between Seb Coe and Steve Ovett at its peak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) In order for the EBTs to work, rangers had to lie to the SPL. It wasn't simply immoral, it was flat out deceit. While it has been shown that deadco were able to get away with it, for a time, they were only able to do so while lying and right up until it came under any real scrutiny. If they weren't required to deceive the league body and SFA in order to make it work then maybe they could argue that the money wasn't recoverable. But they were, so you can't. Also let's not forget these were some of the highest paid people in the country, not paying income tax. Got caught, continued to lie, cheat, obfuscate, block and try to arrogantly bluff their way out until the only thing left was to do was sell up to shyster who'd ride the sinking ship down for them. I will not, ever, be browbeaten or dissuaded from thinking that this was a repellent crime against our nation and our beloved sport. That nobody is in jail for this is laughable. The notion that HMRC shouldn't be chasing all these unpaid monies, is beneath contempt. Far better put than I'd managed.The argument against my assertion that the scheme's operation was thoroughly immoral, took two forms, both thoroughly unconvincing. The first was that lots of us, maybe even me - although that was never actually established -would take tiny steps to pay fractionally less tax if able to. The second was that the behaviour must be deemed moral, as it has thus far been narrowly deemed to be - in part - legal. It's absolutely ludicrous. It started with Jacksgranda making the absurdly flimsy claim that looking at this in any kind of moral sense amounted to "claptrap". He's come out with this kind of rubbish before. He's clearly a decent enough bloke, but he's of the belief that we should all be trying to avoid paying the state what we're due. Quite what sort of society he envisages as the result, he doesn't specify. Edited May 16, 2015 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Never like criticising a fellow dandy but jackspop-pop is aff his heid here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Key part from HMRC website as to why Avoidance CAN be illegal..... ...Most schemes don’t work. You may be told that avoidance is legal, but if the scheme doesn’t work you’ll have made an incorrect tax return which is not in accordance with the law. You are legally obliged to pay tax that is due and you may be charged penalties if you try to avoid it. ......so can we stop all this avoidance evasion crap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackdaybob Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Yes I know, because Ashley has been one step ahead and has always got everything his own way. Just like when he wanted to buy more shares and the SFA would not dare to say no to Mike Ashley and his 'best legal team money can buy' Just like when DK supposedly bought shares on the cheap, there was no way Mike and his 'best legal team money can buy' and the stockmarket panel would idly stand by and let it all happen. Just like when the SFA would not dare to find him guilty of rule breaking, there was no way they would go up against 'best legal team money can buy' Just like when there was no way Ashley would ever allow the requistioners to win the day and take control of the board. Just like he would never just stand by and watch his key men being kicked out of Ibrox by the new board, his 'best legal team money can buy' would be all over this. Yep so far Mike and his 'best legal team money can buy' have done everything that lots of folk on this very thread have said he would do, Don't mess with fat mike. He's got your club, or company, or whatever you're calling it today, by the baws :lol: Edited May 16, 2015 by Trackdaybob 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 first - Ben E King? then - BB King? Hows Dave King's health? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Aye, cos nobody can ever break from the party line eh.....it has been said many times before, you are all sheep. sheep - shaggers, if you don't mind! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Key part from HMRC website as to why Avoidance CAN be illegal..... ...Most schemes don’t work. You may be told that avoidance is legal, but if the scheme doesn’t work you’ll have made an incorrect tax return which is not in accordance with the law. You are legally obliged to pay tax that is due and you may be charged penalties if you try to avoid it. ......so can we stop all this avoidance evasion crap. HMRC sometimes like to give the impression that there is no difference between avoidance and evasion, but there is a difference. They have a DIsclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes system. They don't have a disclosure of tax evasion system. Certain companies structure their affairs so that they pay very little UK corporation tax. This may be classed as avoidance, but it is perfectly legal and HMRC can do nothing about it. If it was evasion, the comapnies involved would be prosecuted. As for Rangers and their disclosure to the SPL or SFA or whoever they have to report to, they had no option but to exclude the loans from players' earnings. They would have no case to put forward to HMRC if they were arguing on the one hand that the loans were not earnings but had reported them as such to the football authorities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 ETA Further apologies if it covers old ground. I've only recently started reading this thread, so I don't know what has been covered already. I noticed the chat about evasion and avoidance, so thought I would chip in. For the sake of your sanity, I hope you did not start at page one, although a lot of it has been, err, deleted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The second was that the behaviour must be deemed moral, as it has thus far been narrowly deemed to be - in part - legal. It started with Jacksgranda making the absurdly flimsy claim that looking at this in any kind of moral sense amounted to "claptrap". I didn't say the first statement. And I said spare me the moralistic claptrap - "Avoiding tax is perfectly legal - spare me any sanctimonious clap trap about morality." By all means attack this scheme (by Rangers) of EBTs as immoral, but it wasn't illegal. Deceiving the SFA/SPL is another matter which hasn't been dealt with very satisfactorily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 It started with Jacksgranda making the absurdly flimsy claim that looking at this in any kind of moral sense amounted to "claptrap". He's come out with this kind of rubbish before. He's clearly a decent enough bloke, but he's of the belief that we should all be trying to avoid paying the state what we're due. Quite what sort of society he envisages as the result, he doesn't specify. I pay the state what it's due according to the tax laws/allowances/deductions. I don't pay them what they think they're due. At the minute I'm PAYE (or more accurately PAYDon'tE, as I'm not working) so I'm paying the state what it's due. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 It started with Jacksgranda making the absurdly flimsy claim that looking at this in any kind of moral sense amounted to "claptrap". He's come out with this kind of rubbish before. He's clearly a decent enough bloke, but he's of the belief that we should all be trying to avoid paying the state what we're due. Quite what sort of society he envisages as the result, he doesn't specify. You'll have to try harder than that to get back in my good books. Damned by faint praise - "decent enough" indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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