Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[101]

12 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

McCann’s challenge deserved a yellow. 

Thought it was on the cusp of getting a yellow. Ref didn't seem interested until Killie players started a rammy.

 

Sammy the Tammy winding up Dougie Ross was nice to see back to his antics.

[parsforlife]

11 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

McCann’s challenge deserved a yellow. 

it maybe did but the ref was only giving a free kick until he had to deal with dees reaction so took the shitebag effort that refs nearly always take and book a player from both sides.

And he can only justify McCanns yellow if he gave Murray a red,  they were so too far apart in severity to be considered similar level offences.

 

[CallumPar]

5 minutes ago, 101 said:

Thought it was on the cusp of getting a yellow. Ref didn't seem interested until Killie players started a rammy.

 

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

it maybe did but the ref was only giving a free kick until he had to deal with dees reaction so took the shitebag effort that refs nearly always take and book a player from both sides.

And he can only justify McCanns yellow if he gave Murray a red,  they were so too far apart in severity to be considered similar level offences.

 

Not disagreeing with any of that. But it was a fairly cynical challenge from McCann and merited a yellow, for me. I’ve already said officials were terrible, but I don’t think that’s an example of one they got wrong.

Murray definitely should have been sent off and there was no violence towards him, as far as I can see. So I can’t understand what Hamilton was booked for at all. If someone puts in a challenge like that, they deserve to be confronted by opponents. Was a proper shitebag challenge and McCann was very lucky he didn’t have a serious injury from it.

Agree that there’s no way McCann’s challenge merited the same punishment, but in isolation I thought it was a bookable offence. Referee let a lot of clear bookings go prior to that though (for both teams) - including one where Hamilton rugby tackled a Killie player to the ground (prior to his yellow).

Second half, referee just stood and watched as Killie players kept kicking/throwing the ball away every time the game stopped, he never once threatened to show any authority over their players. He had no control of the game and his assistants were equally as useless. 

[CallumPar]

I’m a bit less convinced this was a red, having watched it back from this angle… definitely could justify a red, but not as bad as I thought at the time.

 

 

[DA Baracus]

27 minutes ago, DA-go Par Adonis said:

I sometimes type some words on that site. I don't really think it gets me associated with anyone else that does likewise. It's not as if it's a forum where everyone agrees with each other.

Aye it's not everyone, but that site has a fairly high percentage of dreadful people.

4 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

I’m a bit less convinced this was a red, having watched it back from this angle… definitely could justify a red, but not as bad as I thought at the time.

 

 

Nah, that's a pretty clear red! The more I watch it the more I'm convinced the ref got it wrong!

[101]

4 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

I’m a bit less convinced this was a red, having watched it back from this angle… definitely could justify a red, but not as bad as I thought at the time.

 

 

Way to high for it to be a yellow imo.

Originally I thought both feet were off the floor but the second leg only just leaves the ground. On balance red card but probably not as stonewall as I thought watching it live.

[CallumPar]

6 minutes ago, 101 said:

Way to high for it to be a yellow imo.

Originally I thought both feet were off the floor but the second leg only just leaves the ground. On balance red card but probably not as stonewall as I thought watching it live.

Too high? I thought so at the time, but thought this seems to prove otherwise. Point of contact is only ‘high’ because McCann’s off the ground trying to ride the challenge and collides with Murray’s knee area. Murray’s feet are on the deck. It’s a professional foul, for me.

The speed/force of the challenge is what would make it a borderline red, combined with the fact he only had eyes for the man and not the ball.

 

[101]

8 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

Too high? I thought so at the time, but thought this seems to prove otherwise. Point of contact is only ‘high’ because McCann’s off the ground trying to ride the challenge and collides with Murray’s knee area. Murray’s feet are on the deck. It’s a professional foul, for me.

The speed/force of the challenge is what would make it a borderline red, combined with the fact he only had eyes for the man and not the ball.

 

Yeh that's all true. The one thing I don't get is why does he try and make that challenge in the Pars defensive 3rd? Like it's completely stupid and like you say has no interest or chance of getting the ball an odd one for me.

[CallumPar]

3 minutes ago, 101 said:

Yeh that's all true. The one thing I don't get is why does he try and make that challenge in the Pars defensive 3rd? Like it's completely stupid and like you say has no interest or chance of getting the ball an odd one for me.

Yeah, it seemed very unnecessary. We had nobody up the park and they had defensive cover, so seemed unlikely McCann was going to run the length of the pitch and score.

[Poet of the Macabre]

It's 2023 and we're still trying to judge incidents based on still images?

It was a cynical high lunge and it's absurd that it received the same punishment as Hamilton got for complaining about it.

[Raith Against The Machine]

Not remotely a red card offence. 

[CallumPar]

5 minutes ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

It's 2023 and we're still trying to judge incidents based on still images?

It was a cynical high lunge and it's absurd that it received the same punishment as Hamilton got for complaining about it.

I posted the link to the video before the still images. Regardless of how it seemed ‘live’, the footage on Twitter shows that there was nothing high about Murray’s challenge.

I was pretty clear earlier that I thought it looked high and wild at the game. But it’s hard to look at that footage and argue that it was a ‘high lunge’. The footage also shows Hamilton sprinting at least 15 yards to get in Murray’s face about it all - it would be unusual not to see a player booked for that.

[BukyOHare]

4 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

Not remotely a red card offence. 

Raith fan says no, Ayr fan says yes!!

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Lunging from the side, excessive force and endangering an opponent? Yes to all 3 so I'd have given a red card.

[BukyOHare]

4 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

I posted the link to the video before the still images. Regardless of how it seemed ‘live’, the footage on Twitter shows that there was nothing high about Murray’s challenge.

I was pretty clear earlier that I thought it looked high and wild at the game. But it’s hard to look at that footage and argue that it was a ‘high lunge’. The footage also shows Hamilton sprinting at least 15 yards to get in Murray’s face about it all - it would be unusual not to see a player booked for that.

There's nothing about the height of the tackle that determines whether it's a red or not.

[parsforlife]

37 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

Too high? I thought so at the time, but thought this seems to prove otherwise. Point of contact is only ‘high’ because McCann’s off the ground trying to ride the challenge and collides with Murray’s knee area. Murray’s feet are on the deck. It’s a professional foul, for me.

The speed/force of the challenge is what would make it a borderline red, combined with the fact he only had eyes for the man and not the ball.

 

Only having eyes for the man is fine by me,  that's what professional fouls are about and receive a yellow card as a certainty, do it in a controlled manor and I have no problem. 

The reason the point of contact is high is on Murray,  its to our benefit that mccann trying to ride the tackle  means that its his foot that's caught rather than his knee, your still pics aren't perfect as there's a point a moment before the 2nd where murray's front foot is knee high.  There was nothing controlled about the challenge 

9 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

The footage also shows Hamilton sprinting at least 15 yards to get in Murray’s face about it all - it would be unusual not to see a player booked for that.

It would be unusual to see a player wiped out in a needlessly forcefull manor and not have their teammates react.  

Edited July 22, 2023 by parsforlife

[CallumPar]

Just now, BukyOHare said:

There's nothing about the height of the tackle that determines whether it's a red or not.

I was responding directly to someone claiming it was a “cynical high lunge” - I didn’t say it can’t be a red because it was high? You’re just making up an argument by completely ignoring the context here.

If you’d bothered to read my previous post on the footage (about 5 posts above that one) you’d see that I said:

”The speed/force of the challenge is what would make it a borderline red, combined with the fact he only had eyes for the man and not the ball.” - which is in agreement with what you’ve just posted.

[itzdrk]

Is there no a clip of the challenge?  

Cammy tell anything from still images as things happen in split seconds that get missed.  Can't tell anything about force etc either.  

 

[BukyOHare]

1 minute ago, CallumPar said:

I was responding directly to someone claiming it was a “cynical high lunge” - I didn’t say it can’t be a red because it was high? You’re just making up an argument by completely ignoring the context here.

If you’d bothered to read my previous post on the footage (about 5 posts above that one) you’d see that I said:

”The speed/force of the challenge is what would make it a borderline red, combined with the fact he only had eyes for the man and not the ball.” - which is in agreement with what you’ve just posted.

 

Sorry but I didn't say you did, it was a general point merely stating that the height of contact doesn't come into it.

Red for me in this situation (regardless of the team, honest!)

[itzdrk]

1 minute ago, itzdrk said:

Is there no a clip of the challenge?  

Cammy tell anything from still images as things happen in split seconds that get missed.  Can't tell anything about force etc either.  

 

There is

Looks like your bog standard stop the counter attack yellow card.  What's the fuss about? 

 

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

Looks like your bog standard stop the counter attack yellow card.  What's the fuss about? 

 

A standard stop the counter yellow is a shirt pull or a clip of the heels/trips.    it isn't launching yourself full pelt at a player knee high, all murray needed to do is delay a second and do the normal challenge,  he instead chooses the option that can result in injury, that got to receive more punishment. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by parsforlife