Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Salvo Montalbano]

I know it was a low bar but we were better when he came on in the last home league game. He did have a stinking first 15 minutes or so yesterday but he improved later on. Still too focused on passing it first time back where it came from (at one point putting Sam Young under a lot of pressure) or backwards without attempting to turn though. And when we're chasing a goal, that's not going to cut the mustard. 

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Nope

... 

 Any suggestion we’ve been “far better” with him in the team is lunacy.

 

Aye, of course. 

[North West]

Staying away from this game, and others for the foreseeable. We're absolute garbage to watch.

[Cardle is Magic]

1 hour ago, HoBNob said:

Aye, of course. 

Which games did you think he made us “far better” in? Don’t get me wrong, hardly anyone deserves praise this season but what is it I’m missing?

I watched yesterday and vs Falkirk,  he was shite in both and I wasn’t aware he’d made that many appearances in the league tbh.

If you’re happy with Chalmers starting every week then good luck to you. Like most people, I can’t wait until his deal runs out at the end of the season.

[HoBNob]

3 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Which games did you think he made us “far better” in? Don’t get me wrong, hardly anyone deserves praise this season but what is it I’m missing?

I watched yesterday and vs Falkirk,  he was shite in both and I wasn’t aware he’d made that many appearances in the league tbh.

If you’re happy with Chalmers starting every week then good luck to you. Like most people, I can’t wait until his deal runs out at the end of the season.

You complained by the end of your post that by playing Hamilton and Otoo in the same team we are playing two holding midfielders with zero creativity (And I'd agree), and yet you reckon that playing the one centre midfielder who has an ounce of creativity is "lunacy"? 

You're getting awful hung up on the term "far better" I didn't say good, but I'd absolutely stick with far better. We tried Wetherspoon deeper and that didn't work, with Otoo and Hamilton we have absolutely no transition as neither have the passing range, or calmness under pressure to advance the ball. You also have the double whammy that with them both playing opposing defences can push higher up, safe in the knowledge they are unlikely to be punished with a ball in behind. It was noticeable that when Chalmers came on against QP, they dropped deeper as a defence after Chalmers dropped a ball in behind for someone to run onto out wide. Their defence dropped deeper, it allowed us to actually get a foothold and try and build up some pressure, we were far better in that second half with him than without, not necessarily good, but far better. 

It's just odd that out of all the player's who played yesterday it's Chalmers who is drawing your ire for apparently being shite. You have Morton and Dunfermline fans saying that Dunfermline dominated the midfield, that's some going by us with Chalmers playing the 90 and being shite according to yerself. Again, I find the vast majority of abuse about Chalmers to be pre-determined, no matter how the game goes you have Dunfermline fans who will have it set in there mind that Chalmers has been shite. I'm not saying he's always brilliant, but he's nowhere near as bad as so much of our support make out. 

[Cardle is Magic]

Chalmers has creativity? Since when?

He wasn’t good yesterday. He got the ball a lot and did very little with it but pass it a few yards sideways or backwards. He also lost it a lot, looked slow and ponderous as always.

We dominated the midfield because Morton were terrible and Otoo ran right through them. It was absolutely not due to Chalmers, although you’re right that other players also had poor games.

I think you’re clearly one of those people that over corrects when a player becomes a scapegoat and try to seem interesting by saying they’re actually undervalued.

Thankfully, he should be gone in around six months’ time. At least a year too late but it will be over.

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Chalmers has creativity? Since when?

He wasn’t good yesterday. He got the ball a lot and did very little with it but pass it a few yards sideways or backwards. He also lost it a lot, looked slow and ponderous as always.

We dominated the midfield because Morton were terrible and Otoo ran right through them. It was absolutely not due to Chalmers, although you’re right that other players also had poor games.

I think you’re clearly one of those people that over corrects when a player becomes a scapegoat and try to seem interesting by saying they’re actually undervalued.

Thankfully, he should be gone in around six months’ time. At least a year too late but it will be over.

Chalmers was the league leader in assists when we won league one, you've forgotten that despite thinking he was excellent? Have a look at the highlights, good few chances coming from Chalmers yesterday again. He's more creative, and has a better range of passing than any other centre midfielder we have. 

That's some game from Otoo to dominate midfield when he didn't move there until an hour in. 

You are welcome to think it, much like I think that if you scapegoat a player to the degree that you and other Pars fan do it's odd. Honestly don't get the mindset. 

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Chalmers has creativity? Since when?

He wasn’t good yesterday. He got the ball a lot and did very little with it but pass it a few yards sideways or backwards. He also lost it a lot, looked slow and ponderous as always.

We dominated the midfield because Morton were terrible and Otoo ran right through them. It was absolutely not due to Chalmers, although you’re right that other players also had poor games.

I think you’re clearly one of those people that over corrects when a player becomes a scapegoat and try to seem interesting by saying they’re actually undervalued.

Thankfully, he should be gone in around six months’ time. At least a year too late but it will be over.

Chalmers Is our most progressive passer in the squad. People like to complain about him passing sideways or backward. But that is when he gets the ball without good options in front of him. He continually gets on the ball and tries to progress us. It's those in front who need to take responsibility that they aren't available often enough. Better him play back than give it away.

As HoB rightly points out the chalmers cray midfield did very well and Otoo didn't join that until clay was removed, and chalmers continued to do well after that. 

[Cardle is Magic]

33 minutes ago, HoBNob said:

Chalmers was the league leader in assists when we won league one, you've forgotten that despite thinking he was excellent? Have a look at the highlights, good few chances coming from Chalmers yesterday again. He's more creative, and has a better range of passing than any other centre midfielder we have. 

That's some game from Otoo to dominate midfield when he didn't move there until an hour in. 

You are welcome to think it, much like I think that if you scapegoat a player to the degree that you and other Pars fan do it's odd. Honestly don't get the mindset. 

He was excellent playing against part-time teams every week, yes. Mehmet also had the best stats of any Pars keeper just about ever that season but that’s also irrelevant now.

We barely created any chances yesterday so a neat trick for Chalmers to have created any. The Kane header was about it for serious opportunities.

I think Wighton’s even more useless if that helps? I’m sure if enough fans criticise him then you’ll find you actually feel he brings a lot to the team.

 

[HoBNob]

45 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

He was excellent playing against part-time teams every week, yes. Mehmet also had the best stats of any Pars keeper just about ever that season but that’s also irrelevant now.

We barely created any chances yesterday so a neat trick for Chalmers to have created any. The Kane header was about it for serious opportunities.

I think Wighton’s even more useless if that helps? I’m sure if enough fans criticise him then you’ll find you actually feel he brings a lot to the team.

 

Ah good stuff, so we can agree that Chalmers does have creativity? Smashing. 

Highlights say we did create a few, have a wee gander. 

Again you're welcome to think that's what's happening here, it's not, but you're welcome to think it. Likewise whenever someone doesn't criticise it's absolutely because they want to appear "interesting"? That'll be it. 

[HoBNob]

59 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Chalmers Is our most progressive passer in the squad. People like to complain about him passing sideways or backward. But that is when he gets the ball without good options in front of him. He continually gets on the ball and tries to progress us. It's those in front who need to take responsibility that they aren't available often enough. Better him play back than give it away.

As HoB rightly points out the chalmers cray midfield did very well and Otoo didn't join that until clay was removed, and chalmers continued to do well after that. 

Aye, there was someone criticising Chalmers passing at the QP game and it was a head scratcher. What he'll do fairly often is take a ball with a player near in to try invite pressure, play it back to the player and then move square, it can sometimes be a very easy and quick way to beat a poorly done press. We have fans bemoaning how awful we are to watch, and one of the few players who can actually progress the ball gets it tighter than everyone, baffling. 

I've got a mate who's related to one of the youth players and it's fairly apparent that he's held in really high regard by them, it's apparently a big boost if he does play in the reserves for the youths.

[Stellaboz]

The thing for me is when people say he's 5 yards behind the play. What? I need some explanation there because it doesn't make sense. 

 

[DA Baracus]

What is McPake so scared of that he sets up so defensively?

Is he staying up at night shaking in fear of Airdrie, Morton, Hamilton etc?!

So f**king sick of his utter lack of spine.

 

 

Re Chalmers, he, like too many others, simply isn't good enough.

Edited Sunday at 18:58 by DA Baracus

[Stellaboz]

Who was the last player to have such a polarized opinion spectrum from the fan base? I cant think of anyone off top of my head. 

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, Stellaboz said:

Who was the last player to have such a polarized opinion spectrum from the fan base? I cant think of anyone off top of my head. 

Bell? There's been others Like moffat who had too convince People but they did eventually get most seeing what they brought.

Edited Sunday at 20:15 by parsforlife

[Salvo Montalbano]

It's weird with Chalmers. You have some folk who it seems hate him with a passion and would blame him for anything that goes wrong. That's clearly bollocks and he is a fine, neat and tidy player who does go about things in a quiet and steady manner in the main. His set piece delivery can also be pretty good, it's just a shame we don't really have anyone who attacks the ball when he gets it right.

At the other end though, folk who want to disagree with that view go totally and far too far the other way, claiming that he is always progressive and that he's always looking for a forward pass etc. That's simply not true and there were literally half a dozen examples in yesterday's game where he didn't look before playing ball back to the centre half despite having room to turn and players in space in forward areas. For all his supposed quality as a passer his weight of pass is often troublesome (a few yesterday early on were particularly poor) and his one footedness is a massive weakness.

I don't think he's awful but he's not good enough when we are chasing a game and not good enough for an upper Championship side IMO. As we aren't that at the moment then he has his role in the team but when we are chasing a game, a home game against one of the few sides we could legitimately claim we should be beating at that, then I'm sorry but he's a wasted shirt. 

[Andriy_Parmolenko]

18 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

It's weird with Chalmers. You have some folk who it seems hate him with a passion and would blame him for anything that goes wrong. That's clearly bollocks and he is a fine, neat and tidy player who does go about things in a quiet and steady manner in the main. His set piece delivery can also be pretty good, it's just a shame we don't really have anyone who attacks the ball when he gets it right.

At the other end though, folk who want to disagree with that view go totally and far too far the other way, claiming that he is always progressive and that he's always looking for a forward pass etc. That's simply not true and there were literally half a dozen examples in yesterday's game where he didn't look before playing ball back to the centre half despite having room to turn and players in space in forward areas. For all his supposed quality as a passer his weight of pass is often troublesome (a few yesterday early on were particularly poor) and his one footedness is a massive weakness.

I don't think he's awful but he's not good enough when we are chasing a game and not good enough for an upper Championship side IMO. As we aren't that at the moment then he has his role in the team but when we are chasing a game, a home game against one of the few sides we could legitimately claim we should be beating at that, then I'm sorry but he's a wasted shirt. 

Didn't get to see the Morton game so can't comment on that, but some pretty well reasoned observations here imo, basing off what I see in his game elsewhere. 

For me, Chalmers biggest issue is his pace. He is just very slow, and imo too slow to be an important part of a good team in this league. In League 1, when he largely had the time and space to do what he wanted, he had it in him to play the final ball that kills a game off, and didn't have to track back or defend nearly as much, so didn't get found out. 
Against a quick and energetic midfield, he really struggles to cover the space defensively, and doesn't get anywhere near the time and space to play the sort of forward passes he's capable of, so they happen far less often.

We just aren't very good though, so I have no idea whether we're currently better with him in the team or not. I'm not sure there's a midfield combo available to us that I'm completely comfortable with anyway, so it's quite hard to tell. At least he isn't injury prone I guess...


As for Wighton, who was also briefly mentioned earlier in the thread, I've seen quite enough.

Edited Monday at 14:45 by Andriy_Parmolenko

[Chubbychops]

As much as I don't think Chalmers is as bad as some make out, there seems to be an element of the support now saying how good he is every week, which I also don't agree with. There are two different camps with polarised opinion when the truth probably lands somewhere in the middle.

[parsforlife]

6 minutes ago, Chubbychops said:

As much as I don't think Chalmers is as bad as some make out, there seems to be an element of the support now saying how good he is every week, which I also don't agree with. There are two different camps with polarised opinion when the truth probably lands somewhere in the middle.

I've been one of the ones giving Chalmers a fair bit of praise,  but to clarify, that is praise relative to our position as a club, a position I am unhappy we are in.

[Dislocated Boy]

1 hour ago, Andriy_Parmolenko said:

As for Wighton, who was also briefly mentioned earlier in the thread, I've seen quite enough.

Absolutely, I think we all have. I just live in hope that Dapo is actually a player,  get himself fit and up to speed quickly and McPake sees him as the perfect replacement.