Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

13 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Well, in the light of that utter humiliation suffered this evening by The Greatest Football Team In All Of The Universe perhaps we were all a bit hasty to judge Sebastian Osei-Obengo.

Can you make Forfar this Saturday Seb ?

To be fair Seb plays in the 'second tier'. However, the news is taking a while to sink in that Sellick have been beaten by a Lincoln City tribute act!

[the snudge]

43 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

To be fair Seb plays in the 'second tier'. However, the news is taking a while to sink in that Sellick have been beaten by a Lincoln City tribute act!

The Lincoln City?

[jordan_dfc]

We will stay up. Got a feeling Ayr will go back down.

[optimistic]

I'm on holiday, so won't make it Saturday, but I'm curious, have forfar changed much during the summer, dick Campbell had a fairly decent side it seemed, and am I right in saying that it's Gary bollan who's their manager now?

What's everyone's predictions, I'm going 1-3

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, optimistic said:

I'm on holiday, so won't make it Saturday, but I'm curious, have forfar changed much during the summer, dick Campbell had a fairly decent side it seemed, and am I right in saying that it's Gary bollan who's their manager now?

What's everyone's predictions, I'm going 1-3

Aye Campbell was sacked with them at the wrong end of the table, and Bollan left Airdrie to take over. 

One of his first actions was to punt Rab Douglas and bring back Darren Hill in goals, it wasn't a hugely popular decision with fans or the older players (like Chris Templeman) who left/turned against him pretty quickly.

They went down to League 2 after going on a horrific run of something like 1 win between October and February, but Bollan capitalised on Airdrie going full-time to bring in 4 players from that Airdrie squad. Lister is joined by former Diamonds captain David Cox and two players that played for them against us in the playoff final - goalkeeper Grant Adam and Jamie Bain.

To be honest, having looked at their squad, the ex Airdrie trio of Bain/Cox and Lister look like being their main threat, though they still possess Gavin Swankie who was a handy player 5 or so years ago when he was with Arbroath.

I'm looking at Stuart Malcolm - their big former Arbroath centre-half - as the one we should be targeting. He was pretty disastrous for Stenhousemuir last season by all accounts and is only a few years off 40, Thommo, Stirling and Smith running at him is a very pleasant thought indeed.

[DumbartonTheSons]

I'm pretty happy with our starting eleven to be honest. Yeah, I'd like us to have more quality, but that would always be the case in a predominantly full-time division, but what we've got looks to be a decent squad I'd say.

What does concern me, as many others have highlighted, is our lack of depth. An injury or suspension or two and we'd already be down to the bare bones and while youngsters supplementing the bench is fine and good for development, the reality is that we could be forced into fielding them for a prolonged period of time, pretty early on in the season.

We will be in a relegation battle, as everyone knows, and I just fear that with our squad depth, we could be staring down the barrel, early on in the campaign.

And I'm no doom merchant, but it is very concerning the comments about our budget being vastly reduced this season and suggestions that it's been spanked already. If so, then questions need to be asked on why we're going on such a reduced budget, and if it has been spanked early doors, and we do have a poor start to the season, then Aitken would need to field those questions as to why.

I hope we make a good fist of it and remain competitive throughout, but unfortunately even before the ball has been kicked, I have concerns and reservations about the season to come.

[The Moonster]

Where does this "vastly reduced budget" chat come from? Aitken has said that he's working with a smaller budget, but I've not seen anywhere that it's been reduced so much that we're paying folk in gingey bottles, which seems to be the suggestion here.  We kept the majority of last seasons squad, some of whom I imagine are on good wages especially as we had to try and convince them to stay here (Buchanan, Barr, Sparky) and we've brought in players such as Stevenson and Stirling who are probably our top earners and given Thomson's form over the last 4-5 months of last season I can't see him being on peanuts. Add to that the fact that folk like Ewings and Fleming will have had fairly good bargaining chips with their performances last year to get some more money in their deal. We haven't had to look at League 2/Lowland League or Junior football to find players either, which I would expect from a club who are supposedly scraping the barrel. What would people say is a vastly reduced budget for this level? 

I agree that our squad is thin and it's concerning that we're looking to go a full season with 16-18 players and a couple of youths if things start going tits up, but I think we're in that position due to the way we've allocated the budget rather than it being vastly reduced. We've gone for less players of better quality, whether their quality shines through remains to be seen though and Stevie will live and die by the decisions he's currently making.

I'm sure we'll have a Meet the Manager in the first few weeks of the season where folk can put it to him directly just how reduced the budget was if they please.

[Jan Vojáček]

Moonster makes a good point. We know Stevie's complaining about the budget, but that's pretty classic managerial behavior. He's effectively getting his excuses for a poor season in early or, perhaps, trying to convince the board into parting with more cash. Outside of what he's said in the papers and on the os we have heard nothing more to suggest the budget is being dramatically altered. I could understand it if a big name sponsor pulled out (not that we really have any), or if all our players from last year were leaving and being replaced by guys we'd never heard of, but they've not. We've still got Sparky, Buchanan, Barr and Fleming who were massive for us last season. Two of the players who left have gone to a f/t club playing European football as well, so you can't blame them.

Until we know figures perhaps we should assume that the budget is maybe not reduced drastically, just that opposition teams (looks at Stranraer in particular) are just paying greater wages which we can't match.

In the interests of idle chit-chat who do we all reckon the highest paid is? I've heard what Stevo was on last year apparently, and I know we won't be paying anywhere near that, but I still think it'll be him, then Buchanan or Barr.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Aye, all fair enough points, and in many respects we're not worse off than last season around this time - Thomson offers much, much more than Craig and I'll be surprised if young Ryan Clark can't give us as least as much as Kirkpatrick was managing.  If Stevenson is as effective as Routledge and Stirling ditto as Lindsay then I'll be fine with that.  Smith is already looking an improvement on the likes of Heffernan.

It's just that the squad is thinner-looking numbers-wise, and I'd be pleased to see any kind of deals to provide another defender and striker respectively.

[Jan Vojáček]

David Smith looks like a massive improvement on Kevin Cawley never mind Heffernan (who I had actually completely forgotten about!)

Obviously it's far too early to judge anyone, but I'd agree our starting lineup this season looks slightly stronger than it did last year.

Edit: That got me thinking about our bench on our first 'proper' game last year. It was:

Nathan Adger, Andy Graham, Darren Miller, Donald McCallum, Gordon Smith, Mikey Hopkins.

That's not a strong bench at all either. I'm therefore totally relaxed about our current bench.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Sonsteam of 08

[The Moonster]

On the subject of big name sponsors, we actually got one in this year as opposed to losing one. Turnberry Homes are known nationally and a quick Google search shows they're worth about £3M. It's entirely possible we're getting a better sponsorship deal than last year but I admit to knowing very little about how these things work.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

David Smith looks like a massive improvement on Kevin Cawley never mind Heffernan (who I had actually completely forgotten about!)

Obviously it's far too early to judge anyone, but I'd agree our starting lineup this season looks slightly stronger than it did last year.

Edit: That got me thinking about our bench on our first 'proper' game last year. It was:

Nathan Adger, Andy Graham, Darren Miller, Donald McCallum, Gordon Smith, Mikey Hopkins.

That's not a strong bench at all either. I'm therefore totally relaxed about our current bench.

Completely agree.

If we look at the new signings compared to the players we had at this stage last season the starting 11 does look stronger. It's quite hard to judge based on pre-season friendlies but you get a fair idea of what to expect.

Smith > Cawley
I wasn't a fan of Cawley at all. He was a massive let down IMO. He maybe wasn't suited to playing wide but even through the middle his ball retention was beyond attrocious. Smith can beat a man and put a ball into the box. Nae contest.

Berba > Craig
No explanation required. I'm even getting quite confident he could be just as good as Nade was for us.

Stirling > Gibson
IMO Stirling looks to have more about him than Gibson. I felt Gibson was hugely inconsistent and resorted to bizarre crosses from about 40 yards out. Stirling looks very handy at cutting in and has the vision to play some defence splitting passes. High hopes for him.

Stevo vs Jono = Concernced.
Wont judge this one yet but from what I've seen of Stevo I'm not convinced it's an upgrade on Jono. Maybe harsh to compare as they are completely different styles of player but Stevo will need to up his game big time for the real stuff starting. In terms of quality on the ball Stevo wins hands down, it's the running and effort side of things that worry me. Big wage = big expectations.

Pettigrew vs Taggart/Mantis = inconclusive
I actually really like the look if Pettigrew. Big no nonsense defender who doesn't fanny around and doesn't tend to make many mistakes. At this stage I'd say I prefer him to Saunders and I'm undecided on whether I prefer him to Taggart. It will be interesting to see how he gets on when the real stuff starts but so far I've been pleasantly surprised. I get the sense he's a sound guy that you wouldn't mess with. On yersel Pettigrew, I'm intae ye mate.

Feel free to agree or disagree.

[lorenzo71]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Where does this "vastly reduced budget" chat come from? Aitken has said that he's working with a smaller budget, but I've not seen anywhere that it's been reduced so much that we're paying folk in gingey bottles, which seems to be the suggestion here.  We kept the majority of last seasons squad, some of whom I imagine are on good wages especially as we had to try and convince them to stay here (Buchanan, Barr, Sparky) and we've brought in players such as Stevenson and Stirling who are probably our top earners and given Thomson's form over the last 4-5 months of last season I can't see him being on peanuts. Add to that the fact that folk like Ewings and Fleming will have had fairly good bargaining chips with their performances last year to get some more money in their deal. We haven't had to look at League 2/Lowland League or Junior football to find players either, which I would expect from a club who are supposedly scraping the barrel. What would people say is a vastly reduced budget for this level? 

I agree that our squad is thin and it's concerning that we're looking to go a full season with 16-18 players and a couple of youths if things start going tits up, but I think we're in that position due to the way we've allocated the budget rather than it being vastly reduced. We've gone for less players of better quality, whether their quality shines through remains to be seen though and Stevie will live and die by the decisions he's currently making.

I'm sure we'll have a Meet the Manager in the first few weeks of the season where folk can put it to him directly just how reduced the budget was if they please.

All of last seasons squad are playing for less money than last year ...none of them were offered deals elsewhere.Add to that the scrapping of the DS plus 4 players at least less than last season,we are being outbid by L1 sides for players all in all  i call that a vast reduction.Not sure about Antonia leaving if that has anything to do with the status quo, anymore than GL's passiing.Just speculation on my part.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

All of last seasons squad are playing for less money than last year ...none of them were offered deals elsewhere.Add to that the scrapping of the DS plus 4 players at least less than last season,we are being outbid by L1 sides for players all in all  i call that a vast reduction.Not sure about Antonia leaving if that has anything to do with the status quo, anymore than GL's passiing.Just speculation on my part.

Can you provide some cold hard facts around what the players are being paid?

I know one of them personally and he is on an increased wage compared to last season.q

[Boghead ranter]

4 minutes ago, lorenzo71 said:

All of last seasons squad are playing for less money than last year ...none of them were offered deals elsewhere.Add to that the scrapping of the DS plus 4 players at least less than last season,we are being outbid by L1 sides for players all in all  i call that a vast reduction.Not sure about Antonia leaving if that has anything to do with the status quo, anymore than GL's passiing.Just speculation on my part.

Aye, losing the receptionist to another job is a sure sign that things are going down the pan.  Right you are. 

[lorenzo71]

In all reality it seems we are a club fighting to avoid the threat of administration....i feel a good run in the LC may be neccesary for us to have any chance of strengthening in January.The current article 'tough times for the boss' kinda says it all.Steve doing a good job to build a decent first 11 but thats about it.So hope i am wrong with all of this.

[Boghead ranter]

Just now, lorenzo71 said:

In all reality it seems we are a club fighting to avoid the threat of administration....i feel a good run in the LC may be neccesary for us to have any chance of strengthening in January.The current article 'tough times for the boss' kinda says it all.Steve doing a good job to build a decent first 11 but thats about it.So hope i am wrong with all of this.

I didn't think you could top the Antonia comment, so credit to you

[The Moonster]

Just now, lorenzo71 said:

All of last seasons squad are playing for less money than last year ...none of them were offered deals elsewhere.Add to that the scrapping of the DS plus 4 players at least less than last season,we are being outbid by L1 sides for players all in all  i call that a vast reduction.Not sure about Antonia leaving if that has anything to do with the status quo, anymore than GL's passiing.Just speculation on my part.

We had Mark Docherty in the papers telling us he had full-time offers.  The Pars were apparently in for Buchanan.  Chat of Barr going to St Mirren has been rife for about 6 months.  I don't believe for a second that none of our squad had offers from elsewhere, nor do I doubt that if we were paying them shite wages that they'd have been able to get themselves a deal elsewhere. How come players that we released managed to find clubs no problem at the top end of League 1, yet nobody wanted the players we actually wanted to keep?

League 1 sides such as Stranraer, who openly admit to having cash to splash this year is no shame. We are ourselves, in all but divisional status, a League 1 side so I don't find it too ridiculous that we're competing with the likes of Stranraer and Alloa for players.

We overspent last year, the U20s cost us somewhere in the region of £40K to run apparently so stopping that for 1 year is obviously to offset the overspend last year. Antonia's been offered a better position at Morton that she'd have been daft not to take.

You need to be in debt to go into administration which by all accounts we are not, unless you know something that hasn't been communicated to us then talk of administration helps nothing.

[aftershocker]

In all reality it seems we are a club fighting to avoid the threat of administration....i feel a good run in the LC may be neccesary for us to have any chance of strengthening in January.The current article 'tough times for the boss' kinda says it all.Steve doing a good job to build a decent first 11 but thats about it.So hope i am wrong with all of this.

Sorry. But that is just nonsense. We are living within our means. By all accounts we overspent last season. The books have to be balanced, so therefore wage bill has to be reduced

As for Stevie's article..... Fairly standard response.....I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.....its about him managing expectations..... If we get relegated (and odds are will will be fighting it all season), then he can respond by saying "what did you expect?..... If we stay up, then his reputation is enhanced

[Jan Vojáček]

3 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

Completely agree.

If we look at the new signings compared to the players we had at this stage last season the starting 11 does look stronger. It's quite hard to judge based on pre-season friendlies but you get a fair idea of what to expect.

Smith > Cawley
I wasn't a fan of Cawley at all. He was a massive let down IMO. He maybe wasn't suited to playing wide but even through the middle his ball retention was beyond attrocious. Smith can beat a man and put a ball into the box. Nae contest.

Berba > Craig
No explanation required. I'm even getting quite confident he could be just as good as Nade was for us.

Stirling > Gibson
IMO Stirling looks to have more about him than Gibson. I felt Gibson was hugely inconsistent and resorted to bizarre crosses from about 40 yards out. Stirling looks very handy at cutting in and has the vision to play some defence splitting passes. High hopes for him.

Stevo vs Jono = Concernced.
Wont judge this one yet but from what I've seen of Stevo I'm not convinced it's an upgrade on Jono. Maybe harsh to compare as they are completely different styles of player but Stevo will need to up his game big time for the real stuff starting. In terms of quality on the ball Stevo wins hands down, it's the running and effort side of things that worry me. Big wage = big expectations.

Pettigrew vs Taggart/Mantis = inconclusive
I actually really like the look if Pettigrew. Big no nonsense defender who doesn't fanny around and doesn't tend to make many mistakes. At this stage I'd say I prefer him to Saunders and I'm undecided on whether I prefer him to Taggart. It will be interesting to see how he gets on when the real stuff starts but so far I've been pleasantly surprised. I get the sense he's a sound guy that you wouldn't mess with. On yersel Pettigrew, I'm intae ye mate.

Feel free to agree or disagree.

 

Saunders annoyed me. No idea why, it might've been down to the fact I had a weird love of Scott Taggart and he was his replacement, I don't know. His aimless hoofs and gangly running style made him effectively a stretched James Creaney at times...although I did enjoy his last minute goals. I've no idea if Pettigrew will be any good, but on 1st viewing he appears to be a solid, nae chances taken, foot through it defender. And I'm alright with that.

I did this last year and came to the conclusion that Grant Gallagher was better than Aggy (judge me, go on, do it). So as a result I'm always weary about doing this sort of thing so early on, but I do agree things are looking promising.

Cawley was a massive letdown. He tried, he just wasn't very good (although being played wide was a big part of that I suppose) and I was delighted when we got rid of him. Both Smith and Stirling look like big improvements on him - natural width is a glorious thing.

I liked Gibson because he was capable of that bit of magic despite doing very little for the majority of a game. Maybe he's best comparable to Stevo, a guy with the quality to be a big asset but who doesn't show it enough.

Thommo's the best player I've ever seen play for us. Fully 100% support giving him a lifetime contract and playing him in every game for the next 30 years. I know that this will never come back and hurt me because even if he's terrible he still looks majestic.

Replacing Routledge and Lindsay in CM looked to be our biggest issue. Both were superb last season, albeit really needed to add more of a cutting edge to their game. Fleming and Stevenson replacing them certainly gives us more going forward, we know Gaz is decent defensively, and perhaps Gal can finally step up and be the player we hoped he would be...He's looked alright in pre-season to be fair to him.

Anyway, this will all come back to haunt me soon, and I'll be weeping into my pillow when Kevin Cawley (and Scott Taggart) team up to relegate us in May.