topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Afghanistan taking risks now Watt dropped Nabi And he's pressed on 194/4 going into the final over I'm surrounded by happy Afghans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Zadran goes to a freak dismissal with two balls left after Nabis shot obliterates the stumps at the non strikers end and Scotland run out Zadran in the chaos. Shafiqullah comes in for him. A Nabi single means he hits one ball, the last of the innings and gets a massive six leaving the final total 210/5 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) From what I remember he was talking about what some fringe nutters might do under a hypothetical set of circumstances rather than what the Orange Order would do and a copy editor got a bit carried away with the headline for the article. Everything you've just mentioned was the chat in his amusing climbdown afterwards. "Oh I was misquoted"... not enough to make a complaint to the PCC or sue the journalist of course! Hmm... When asked what would happen if Scotland moved to sever ties with the union, Ramsay said: 'The Orange Order would become a paramilitary force, if you like.' That's a direct quote, which he did not challenge at the time. Nothing about fringe nutters, unless of course you count the entire OO as such, which I guess I do! Not interested because it's an irrelevance dredged up by cranks to demonise people, who don't deserve to be taken so seriously. Who are these cranks? Are we cranks for bringing it up, please explain. And btw - folk that really aren't interested rarely go to the trouble of excitedly refuting something. I read it and if you take it seriously then you're a fool. Have you seen the cut of most blokes in loyal orders in Scotland? They make me look young, fit, lithe and healthy. The Maquis they are not. I'd reckon that their biggest act of sabotage would be to pencil a Hitler moustache on Wee Nicola's photo on the Daily Record before skedaddling on their mobility scooters. No-one said they take it seriously. We said that it was threatened by the OO; by the then Grand Secretary of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland, no less. I see forever_blue has crawled back under his rock after being proved so comprehensively wrong. Edited July 12, 2015 by milton75 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I take it we receive no coverage of Scottish cricket from the state broadcaster, I keep hearing how it is becoming a more popular sport now, but i've yet to see the BBC cover a match on TV or radio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 A perspective from around the same time by someone that felt they had to leave the organisation: Why I quit the Orange Orderthe Rev Gordon McCracken My former colleagues in the leadership of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland are said to be ''amazed'' at my decision to leave the Orange Order over the Drumcree issue. It has been suggested it seems strange that after so many years of violence this one incident has sparked my decision. Inevitably, some will want to paint me as the bogey man and suggest I have resigned to further my career in the Church. Not so. So let me attempt to make my thinking clear. Until now I have been convinced that the Order has done its best to distance itself from the paramilitary groups. The major battle on that front was won by moderates in the Scottish Order back in the mid-1970s, even though the past grand master, Magnus Bain, was given a hard time by those with paramilitary sympathies, mainly, it must be said, in flute bands which are not directly connected with the Order. Sadly, on this occasion, and much to the consternation of the Scottish leadership, the Grand Lodge of Ireland has been unable to control Portadown District's actions nor contain ''hard-line'' characters like Joel Patton and his ''Spirit of Drumcree'' cronies who are intent, it seems, on destroying anything constructive. Two years ago, when tensions mounted previously at Drumcree, the hard men were dictating events, and I accepted that the Order's local leadership had unwittingly lost control to these hard-line elements. My problem now is that having had experience of this, they had not learned their lessons and have again provided a platform for sinister elements to come to the fore. The attacks on the RUC and our Squaddies are intolerable from any quarter. I expect them from Republican sources. They disgust me when they come from Loyalist sources, and I was particularly appalled to see men in the field at Drumcree, undoubtedly including some Orangemen, defiantly waving flags and cheering while a gunman moved into position and fired on the police lines. Did anyone try to stop him or help to identify him? Or like St Paul when the Apostle Stephen was murdered, did they ''approve''? The Orange Order has been ''seen'' by the general public to have ''approved'' of these actions, and lamenting a hostile press's failure to report its official opposition will not suffice. Actions speak louder than words. Though the leadership condemns the violence, the fact remains that the Orange Order played into the hands of the hard-liners and provided a ready-made propaganda coup for Republicans. The Scottish Grand Lodge, though equally opposed to the violence, is guilty by association, and I believe the Scottish leadership's hopes of influencing their Irish colleagues on the issue will prove futile. Ulster Unionism is the victim of its siege mentality. For the most part they are a people who feel under threat, and who when their backs are against the wall dig in their heels and cry ''No surrender''. The problem is that in doing so they have lost all sense of the way they are perceived on the British mainland. Professor Anthony Alcock, in his book Understanding Ulster makes the telling point that British opinion will only support the concept of Northern Ireland remaining an integral part of the United Kingdom on the basis of the democratic mandate. Most Ulster Unionists, and their Scottish sympathisers, don't see it that way. They think, wrongly, that the Union can be preserved by ''physical force'', ironically a Republican rather than Loyalist tradition. It cannot. Displays of militancy only alienate most Britons who see one side as being as bad as the other. This basic mentality also underlies my decision to quit the Orange Order. Several weeks back, at a meeting of the Scottish Grand Lodge Central Committee, I found myself in the midst of an informal discussion on the Stormont Agreement. It became apparent to me that I was out on a limb in supporting it. Furthermore, what disturbed me was the uncritical position being taken to support the Grand Lodge of Ireland's opposition to it. It was uncritical, and based on an emotional ''let's stick together'' mentality. But what does that achieve? If Orangeism in Scotland has anything to contribute to Irish politics it ought to be as a moderating influence, helping the Unionists there to see themselves as others see them.Unfortunately, and ironically, in its bicentenary year, Scottish Orangeism is in real danger of losing the last remnants of its distinctive Scottish identity. From the outset, when Scots soldiers returned after the 171998 rebellion there was such a distinctive strand. Only as the industrial revolution advanced did the Irish dimension become more prominent, and at times seemed in danger of subsuming Scotland's distinct identity. That was to an extent resisted by indigenous influences, at least until the present Troubles in Ulster. I can well remember David Bryce, the past grand secretary, lamenting his predecessor in office, John Adam, as a ''Scot who spent his life wishing he had been an Ulsterman''. The present grand secretary, Jack Ramsay, a Harthill man of Ulster stock, also thinks Orangeism came from the Antrim shore simply because his own folk did. Scottish Orangeism has much broader roots and influences in its past, but they seem likely to disappear. Its religious dimension is fast giving way to a more overtly political dimension. At a time when Scotland is facing a new political future, can Orangeism in Scotland continue its obsession with Irish politics? Its deepest roots lie in the Protestant Reformation and the Covenanting traditions of Scotland, but if its self- perception and public identity become ''Irished'' and it has nothing positive to contribute to the future of Scotland then it really will be an irrelevance and may well disappear altogether as a strand of Scottish life for more than 200 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Took dog for a walk and got back in time to see Slip from 47/1 to 48/3 Ship has steadied somewhat and were 67/3 in the ninth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The Portadown News website. It's old, but it's still relevant: http://www.portadownnews.com/06Jul01.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Dat bonfire. Towering bonfires at N Ireland celebrations cause controversy http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33497101 they are an important expression of protestant identity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Matt Cross might just be dragging Scotland back into this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Matt Cross might just be dragging Scotland back into this Well I jinxed that He's out for 37 98/4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_K_97 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Looks like this guy's had a good day of business then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Nonsense emerging as our last hope We're 141/5 So we need 70 of 5 overs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 171/7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 All out for 173 And with rain liable to hit at least one of our easier fixtures it's not looking good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Whatever you may think of the Orange Folk, that is quite an impressive piece of pallet building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Protestant identity. Also pleasing to see our resident bigot sympathisers getting telt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The Portadown News website. It's old, but it's still relevant: http://www.portadownnews.com/06Jul01.htm Is it beutifull? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Protestant identity. Also pleasing to see our resident bigot sympathisers getting telt. Okay then, here we go again, and I am biting. Who exactly are the resident bigots? I think we need this defined. Sitting here full of red wine after a day out on Falkirk, with an RC (God forbid), watching tennis, and I come home to this cliched pish. You seem to be all over lots of OO threads but what positive contributions have you ever made/suggested as a way forward in Northern Ireland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I didn't say we had resident bigots. But the likes of TK, LTL, foreverb, jacksgrandad, and yourself from time to time, have deflected and/or white knighted for the OO and the more unsavory elements attached to the loyalist community. Can't remember what thread it was now but you absolutely got your knickers in a twist over the thread title rather the actual problem it was highlighting. Do you need to be able to propose a positive contribution to comment on TFS? Dealing with the growing right wing/racist problem in the loyalist community instead of ignoring it would be a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Okay then, here we go again, and I am biting. Who exactly are the resident bigots? I think we need this defined. Sitting here full of red wine after a day out on Falkirk, with an RC (God forbid), watching tennis, and I come home to this cliched pish. You seem to be all over lots of OO threads but what positive contributions have you ever made/suggested as a way forward in Northern Ireland. Who the f**k mentions what religion there mates are ffs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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