Confidemus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 And there's nothing wrong with the SNP being a centre right party, and trying to encourage a race to the bottom with our rUK neighbours. Let's just not pretend they are this cuddly bunch of socialists, which is laughably untrue. They're FAR more socially progressive than any other major party. Unlucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes, a typical failure to address the substance. This post could have been summarised by "Uh, just cos right!" I realise it's tedious to actually have to justify your position, and given how poor yours is, I understand your reluctance to do so. The substance of why I don't think undercutting the UK's corporation tax is necessarily a regressive policy or the substance of why I would trust the SNP to deliver a more progressive society than Labour? In other words are you asking me to repeat the argument that I just typed out a few hours ago or the one we had an extremely lengthy (and I'm sure eye bleedingly boring for everyone else) back and forth for ages a week or two ago? You must be pretty annoyed that you've misunderstood my original response as to Banterman as some kind of SNP endorsement and that you can't even recover the situation with the never-ending change the subject / ask a hypothetical question / change the subject HB bore them into submission game. Sare yin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 They're FAR more socially progressive than any other major party. Unlucks. Define "socially progressive" please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 the never-ending change the subject / ask a hypothetical question / change the subject HB bore them into submission game. And that is essentially HB in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Really? Did Blair and Brown promise to raise corpration tax, as Miliband currently is? or promise to restore the 50p tax rate? or reform the banking sector? They promised to follow the Tory governments spending plans, just like Ed Balls has. Austerity ahoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 They promised to follow the Tory governments spending plans, just like Ed Balls has. Austerity ahoy! aka socially regressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 That' a road we don' want to go down again. Incredible wilful blindness as to what miliband is saying nowadays. I remember Brown and Blair saying similar things and gleefully hacking lumps off Corporation Tax rates. Really? Did Blair and Brown promise to raise corpration tax, as Miliband currently is? or promise to restore the 50p tax rate? or reform the banking sector? They promised to follow the Tory governments spending plans, just like Ed Balls has. Austerity ahoy! Offt, that is some mighty impressive goal post shifting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 They're FAR more socially progressive than any other major party. Unlucks. How are you definining socially progressive? I see it as equalities issues - so the last major 2socially progressive" issue was probably same sex marriage - i presuem this isn't what you're talking about though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The substance of why I don't think undercutting the UK's corporation tax is necessarily a regressive policy or the substance of why I would trust the SNP to deliver a more progressive society than Labour? You haven't said why you believe this. What have the SNP done or promised to do, which justifies this faith based belief? As opposed to what Ed Miliband's Labour for example is proposing to do if elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 How are you definining socially progressive? I see it as equalities issues - so the last major 2socially progressive" issue was probably same sex marriage - i presuem this isn't what you're talking about though? What are Labour planning to do re austerity? I'll leave that one hanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 What are Labour planning to do re austerity? I'll leave that one hanging. What austerity is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 What does the SNP's economic adviser, the much lauded 'Nobel Laureate' Joseph Stiglitz make of the effect on social equality of decreasing Corporation Tax? I don't know. Was he referencing a newly fledged country when making these statements ? Or just in general ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 What are Labour planning to do re austerity? I'll leave that one hanging. Which bits of austerity have the SNP pledged to reverse in an independent Scotland or under devolution that Labour haven't at Westminster? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Oh christ, I forgot about that one as well. Stiglitz is a long term critic of corpration tax cuts,except for the one the SNP are proposing. Obvs. What about a newly fledged nation ? Did he mention whether it was bad for them or not ? Did he even reference Scotland at all when making this statement ? If a corporation tax cut helps encourage business in the short term to help smooth over the transition period then good. Maybe you and HB could find us a wee quote from the professor that tells us whether this idea FOR and independent Scotland is good or bad? Or maybe you and HB could stop recycling the same garbage because you have no arguments ? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't know. Was he referencing a newly fledged country when making these statements ? Or just in general ? In general I believe. I missed the part, after where he said it was a gift to corporations and increased inequality in society, where he said "obvs, unless it's Scotland likes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 What about a newly fledged nation ? Did he mention whether it was bad for them or not ? Did he even reference Scotland at all when making this statement ? If a corporation tax cut helps encourage business in the short term to help smooth over the transition period then good. Maybe you and HB could find us a wee quote from the professor that tells us whether this idea FOR and independent Scotland is good or bad? Or maybe you and HB could stop recycling the same garbage because you have no arguments ? Just a thought. Stiglitz is of the opinion that corporation tax cuts reduce equality in society, the idea that he will u-turn on this idea in the context of an independent Scotland is just nonsense. Again,I have no problem with people backing a CT cut, but the idea that it will be a progressive polviy in an indy scotland is just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Stiglitz is of the opinion that corporation tax cuts reduce equality in society, the idea that he will u-turn on this idea in the context of an independent Scotland is just nonsense. Again,I have no problem with people backing a CT cut, but the idea that it will be a progressive polviy in an indy scotland is just nonsense. He also said, quite correctly in my view, that it's not a required solution to stimulate investment. Indeed, that's, if I've picked him up correctly, his main problem with it. There are tax breaks you can give to companies that earn them, and to allow investment. Across the board CT cuts are gifts to companies, which they pocket and we see little benefit of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 And there's nothing wrong with the SNP being a centre right party, and trying to encourage a race to the bottom with our rUK neighbours. Let's just not pretend they are this cuddly bunch of socialists, which is laughably untrue. After Milibands comments regarding the race to bottom, people did some research on all Europeans countries. Guess what ? None of them changed their tax rate to counter a neighbour decreasing theirs. Absolutely none of them have ever been in a race to bottom. Milliband and your fine self are talking shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 What austerity is this? When you start answering my questions, I'll start answering yours. Which bits of austerity have the SNP pledged to reverse in an independent Scotland or under devolution that Labour haven't at Westminster? Genuine question. No it isn't a genuine question. Stop being silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't know. Was he referencing a newly fledged country when making these statements ? Or just in general ? Just to be clear, you're contending that Joseph Stiglitz could credibly think the following: UK rate of corporation tax falling from 24%-21% = "just a gift to the corporations increasing inequality in our society" However, Scotland reducing rate of corporation tax from 21%-18% =/= "a gift to the corporations increasing inequality in our society" Pray, tell, how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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