Scotland's Oil

[Homer Thompson]

Nonsensical assertion. You have no idea whether all future governments of an independent Scotland would elect not to have nuclear weapons, get involved in conflicts or not join the EU (who tell their members what laws to pass by and large).

This may be your dream but in the real world it isn't like that.

But the point is, if we did have a Scottish government who did any, or all, of those things we, the population of Scotland, could vote them out.

[Taza]

On the point of why Yes seems to have a lot of support on P&B and the reasoning being put forward that the 18-30 male category is generally more vocal and predisposed to the idea of independence, I would like to point out that:-

1) my observation is that most people on here, have not in fact put their age/dob on their profile. Therefor, why presume they fall into this category?

2) I for one am significantly older than 30 and unsurprisingly, so too are most of my friends who are also voting yes.

Just saying

[DeeTillEhDeh]

So ''this vote will make little or no difference to the vast majority of people'' but you are still going to vote against those people having the right to influence their social and economic future, eh? Why don't you just stay well away from your polling station on the 18th? After-all, why bother if it's not going to make any difference?

What we will get, are governments who's whole manifesto of policies, will be designed for the benefit of Scotland and the people who live here and not governments who will waste our resources on Nuclear weapons, foreign (unwinnable) wars and the continued, never-ending infrastructure improvements to the growing Nation of London.

Not voting against - spoiling ballot.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

This Taza makes Parp look like a reasoned individual.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

On the point of why Yes seems to have a lot of support on P&B and the reasoning being put forward that the 18-30 male category is generally more vocal and predisposed to the idea of independence, I would like to point out that:-

1) my observation is that most people on here, have not in fact put their age/dob on their profile. Therefor, why presume they fall into this category?

2) I for one am significantly older than 30 and unsurprisingly, so too are most of my friends who are also voting yes.

Just saying

Presumably because you're behaving like a bairn?

[Confidemus]

Presumably because you're behaving like a bairn?

Tbf, your retorts have been rather infantile of late.

[Taza]

Not voting against - spoiling ballot.

This Taza makes Parp look like a reasoned individual.

Presumably because you're behaving like a bairn?

[H_B]

Pish. The consensus in Scotland is against Nuclear weapons and has been against our dalliances in Iraq and Afghanistan..

Please provide evidence to support this claim. Particularly that concerning the international community's actions in Afghanistan.

Thanks.

[MassiveFanDan]

This idea of 'The UK Government' versus 'Scotland' is so passé. I almost can't believe that people these days would trott out this shite. Do folk still believe that the big bad UK (populated so much by Scots and sons of Scots) would make this distinction?

This is an article from the Telegraph, a Tory unionist newspaper, from 2009. It is reporting the release of UK Government civil service documents, detailing a meeting which took place a year after the submission of the McCrone Report.

North Sea oil gave Scotland 'massive' budget surplus, say Government records

An independent Scotland would have enjoyed “massive” budget surpluses thanks to North Sea oil while England’s economy languished, civil servants calculated.

By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor

6:41PM BST 28 Sep 2009

Records from 1975, just released, show Government officials admitted that the discovery of oil had transformed the economic case for separation.

They calculated that Scots’ average income would increase by up to 30 per cent per head and it could be “credibly argued” that repealing the Act of Union was to Scotland’s advantage.

England would have faced “difficult years” of adjustment following the break-up, complete with higher taxes and unemployment, but would have bounced back relatively quickly.

But the civil servants also warned that an independent Scotland risked “disaster” if the oil price collapsed and concluded there was a “good case” for the retention of the Union.

The official thinking was disclosed in Government records made public at the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh.

In the mid-1970s the North Sea oil industry was in its infancy and Scotland’s first referendum in devolution, proposed by the Labour government of James Callaghan, was four years away.

The newly-released documents show that 11 civil servants met on April 17, 1975, including Dr Gavin McCrone, who a year earlier had written a paper on oil and independence.

“An independent Scotland could now expect to have massive surpluses both on its budget and on its balance of payment, and with the proper husbanding of resources this situation could last for a very long time into the future,” his report said.

“Thus for the first time since the Act of Union was passed, it can now be credibly argued that Scotland's economic advantage lies in its repeal.”

Another civil servant in the Government’s constitution unit found that Scotland might see a one-off 15 per cent rise in living standards “but little beyond that.”

The price would be higher inflation and dependence on “sizeable” oil revenues.

For England, loss of most of the UK's oil revenues would mean several “difficult” years of adjustment, complete with low growth, high unemployment and higher taxes.

“At the end of this period, however, the loss of resources to the economy would be equivalent to something like one year's growth,” said the second assessment.

“Scottish independence therefore would be uncomfortable for England but could be survived perfectly well.”

A final draft, dated June 1975, admitted that a “popular view” was Scotland’s economic problems would disappear and it would become the “Kuwait of the western world.”

This paper concluded that a separate Scotland would enjoy 25 or 30 per cent more wealth per head than England during the 1980s, but cast doubts on whether oil extracted in waters east of Shetland could be claimed by the Scots.

A senior special adviser to Alex Salmond, the First Minister, said successive Labour and Tory governments had hidden the truth about the case for independence in the 1970s.

He said more than half of the revenues from the North Sea had yet to be realised, and Scotland could still benefit by establishing an oil fund now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/6240671/North-Sea-oil-gave-Scotland-massive-budget-surplus-say-Government-records.html

It was written by Simon Johnson, their Scottish Political Editor, who has since gone back to reliably informing us in every column that Scotland is too wee and poor and etc. to go it alone as an independent state.

But he knows better, as do you.

[Taza]

Please provide evidence to support this claim. Particularly that concerning the international community's actions in Afghanistan.

Thanks.

Sorry no time, I've just taken delivery of 1000 of the new 16x page booklets from YS 'Your Choice - opportunities in an independent Scotland' and it's my intention, to get as many through the doors in time for the kick-off tonight as possible. Warming up the audience, so to speak.

[1320Lichtie]

Sorry no time, I've just taken delivery of 1000 of the new 16x page booklets from YS 'Your Choice - opportunities in an independent Scotland' and it's my intention, to get as many through the doors in time for the kick-off tonight as possible. Warming up the audience, so to speak.

Good lad

[Supras]

Please provide evidence to support this claim. Particularly that concerning the international community's actions in Afghanistan.

Thanks.

How many of the 9/11 bombers were from Afghanistan?

Are you aware that senior members of the Taliban opposed the attack?

Are you aware more training for the attack took place in Germany and the US as opposed to Afghanistan?

Are you aware that immediately after the attack, and under severe threat, the Taliban immediately tried to negotiate?

The war, whilst obviously an unmitigated disaster, was completely unjustifiable from the start. And somehow Noam Chomsky agreeing with it doesn't change everything. Funny that, huh?

[H_B]

How many of the 9/11 bombers were from Afghanistan?

Are you aware that senior members of the Taliban opposed the attack?

Are you aware more training for the attack took place in Germany and the US as opposed to Afghanistan?

Are you aware that immediately after the attack, and under severe threat, the Taliban immediately tried to negotiate?

The war, whilst obviously an unmitigated disaster, was completely unjustifiable from the start. And somehow Noam Chomsky agreeing with it doesn't change everything. Funny that, huh?

What on earth is this rambling drivel supposed to have to do with anything ?

[Baxter Parp]

What on earth is this rambling drivel supposed to have to do with anything ?

You should know, you're the expert on drivel.

[1320Lichtie]

You should know, you're the expert on drivel.

[P45]

Telt.

[1320Lichtie]

f**k knows what H_B will do after this is all over.... What would be the point of his existence afterwards seeing as he spends his whole life on this sub forum?

[Blaven]

f**k knows what H_B will do after this is all over.... What would be the point of his existence afterwards seeing as he spends his whole life on this sub forum?

He will go back to spotting trains.

[Supras]

What on earth is this rambling drivel supposed to have to do with anything ?

I like to educate people who believe the war in Afghanistan was, in any way, justifiable.

[H_B]

I like to educate people who believe the war in Afghanistan was, in any way, justifiable.

Yeah ?

Ignoring for a second the comical thought that you could educate anyone on anything other than inventing imaginary lives, please very specifically state what this has to do with me.

Where , very very specifically specifically, have I said the war in Afghanistan is justified.