Latest Polls and Latest Odds

[Guest]

Why is that better news for the Yes side? What's going to make people suddenly interested in this, in a way they certainly aren't now?

The much heralded White Paper was as expected a damp squib. It landed with a deafening sound of silence and disinterest.

Lack of interest = lower turnout. You've always agreed a lower turnout is better for Yes than it is for No.

The No side is vast but apathy is absolutely rife within the ranks.

Almost every Yes will be make the effort to vote. Percentage wise, it will not be anywhere near the same on the No side.

IMO, of course.

And in terms of people engaging nearer the time, isn't it just human nature to take more of an interest in something when it's closer?

The bandwagon, if you will.

You think now is a bad time for wannabe political experts, come Summer it'll be ten times worse.

[H_B]

Lack of interest = lower turnout. You've always agreed a lower turnout is better for Yes than it is for No.

The No side is vast but apathy is absolutely rife within the ranks.

Almost every Yes will be make the effort to vote. Percentage wise, it will not be anywhere near the same on the No side.

IMO, of course.

And in terms of people engaging nearer the time, isn't it just human nature to take more of an interest in something when it's closer?

The bandwagon, if you will.

You think now is a bad time for wannabe political experts, come Summer it'll be ten times worse.

Meh. Maybe. I still think the turnout will be decent. 70 ish % maybe.

[Reynard]

We will get.into the EU. End of discussion.

After the European elections the spotlight will be.on the UKs membership.

Meaning what?

Its looking like the referendum bill won't even make it through the Lords. I think that would suit Cameron too.

[HardyBamboo]

An interesting post, (from Wings again, sorry Reynard), probably something most already know but it is demonstrated quite well.

The Scotsman and Herald both carry stories today reporting an Ipsos-MORI poll which found that only 14% of voters considered themselves to be “well-informed” about the referendum debate, and that two-thirds had difficulty in discerning whether what they were being told was true or not.

Since this site’s entire reason for existence is to demonstrate that what much of the No campaign and the Scottish media tells people is either distorted, misleading or flat-out untrue, we can’t say those findings surprise us much. But there was an interesting nugget buried in the poll data which the papers didn’t pick up on.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/kept-in-the-dark/

[Burma]

Unsurprising. As we can see in microcosm on this board the tactic is to confuse and frighten. To fudge any debate with semantics. To bog arguments down in irrelevant legal trivia. To avoid and ensure that actual debate does not take place. To ask the same questions over and over again despite receiving direct answers. And when all else fails to tug on the heartstrings by referring to World War Two. The britnats will offend and make comments about kilts braveheart shortbread and haggis in an attempt to portray the independence movement as twee. The economic political and social arguments must never be discussed.

[Burma]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5leiwEiTM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cmdRnb3Ic7M

[ayrmad]

Unsurprising. As we can see in microcosm on this board the tactic is to confuse and frighten. To fudge any debate with semantics. To bog arguments down in irrelevant legal trivia. To avoid and ensure that actual debate does not take place. To ask the same questions over and over again despite receiving direct answers. And when all else fails to tug on the heartstrings by referring to World War Two. The britnats will offend and make comments about kilts braveheart shortbread and haggis in an attempt to portray the independence movement as twee. The economic political and social arguments must never be discussed.

And I hope Reynard and co keep it up to the last minute, the longer they keep it up the less they'll encourage swithering No's and Don't Know's to actually turn up at the polling booths.

I'm expecting at least 35/45% of the population eligible to vote to vote YES, I've no idea how many will actually vote No but I'm confident we'll be an independent country as a result of this referendum.

[Reynard]

And I hope Reynard and co keep it up to the last minute, the longer they keep it up the less they'll encourage swithering No's and Don't Know's to actually turn up at the polling booths.

I'm expecting at least 35/45% of the population eligible to vote to vote YES, I've no idea how many will actually vote No but I'm confident we'll be an independent country as a result of this referendum.

There's about a dozen folk post in here. I doubt it's having the worldwide impact you think.

And lets face it, genuine don't knows, of who there are very few, will also see the idiocy of Burma and Baxter and Enrico etc etc so while you may hate some of the stuff I say here, or all of it. It's going to make absolutely no impact whatsoever, anywhere. This is a dark musty corner of a football forum filled with half wits.

Yes have already lost this referendum anyway. It was unwinnable right from the start and their lack of any sort of reasonable argument to bring forward has left them preaching to their own choir.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Reynard

[ayrmad]

There's about a dozen folk post in here. I doubt it's having the worldwide impact you think.

And lets face it, genuine don't knows, of who there are very few, will also see the idiocy of Burma and Baxter and Enrico etc etc so while you may hate some of the stuff I say here, or all of it. It's going to make absolutely no impact whatsoever, anywhere. This is a dark musty corner of a football forum filled with half wits.

Yes have already lost this referendum anyway. It was unwinnable right from the start and their lack of any sort of reasonable argument to bring forward has left them preaching to their own choir.

The NO campaign in general have a similar MO, hope you all keep it up.

[Reynard]

The NO campaign in general have a similar MO, hope you all keep it up.

TBH they could all go on holiday right now and do something more worthwhile as it's not going to affect the result one way or another.Yes will lose pretty heavily.

You have fallen into the same hole as that Colkitto half wit who seemed to think every time someone failed to happy clap the SNP stance on things then a fairy died or a bundle of yes votes occurred or something stupid like that.

[Burma]

There's about a dozen folk post in here. I doubt it's having the worldwide impact you think.

And lets face it, genuine don't knows, of who there are very few, will also see the idiocy of Burma and Baxter and Enrico etc etc so while you may hate some of the stuff I say here, or all of it. It's going to make absolutely no impact whatsoever, anywhere. This is a dark musty corner of a football forum filled with half wits.

Yes have already lost this referendum anyway. It was unwinnable right from the start and their lack of any sort of reasonable argument to bring forward has left them preaching to their own choir.

Translation. Just stop talking about it. You cant win anyway so dont even bother about it. No-one here is capable of making valid arguments. Nothing to see her undecideds....move along....move along.

And as for not liking what you say....its usually hilarious so im happy for you to stay.

[Burma]

TBH they could all go on holiday right now and do something more worthwhile as it's not going to affect the result one way or another.Yes will lose pretty heavily.

You have fallen into the same hole as that Colkitto half wit who seemed to think every time someone failed to happy clap the SNP stance on things then a fairy died or a bundle of yes votes occurred or something stupid like that.

You sound like a dying man desperately trying to convince himself that he's going to be ok.

YES is gaining momentum. Independence is a coming

[I'm Brian]

There's about a dozen folk post in here. I doubt it's having the worldwide impact you think.

It's a bit more than that, but nearer the time I am sure the numbers will get greater. Perhaps it isn't the be all and end all of the referendum campaigns, but If it helps people make up their minds then it's worthwhile.

And lets face it, genuine don't knows, of who there are very few, will also see the idiocy of Burma and Baxter and Enrico etc etc so while you may hate some of the stuff I say here, or all of it. It's going to make absolutely no impact whatsoever, anywhere.

Whether the P and B banter and argument is percieved as helpful and accurate or not isn't really the issue for me. What it does do is provide plenty of links to information that can help people make their minds up.

This is a dark musty corner of a football forum filled with half wits.

Glad to see you have finally realised your standing in the said forum.

Yes have already lost this referendum anyway. It was unwinnable right from the start and their lack of any sort of reasonable argument to bring forward has left them preaching to their own choir.

You seem to be sure of this and repeat it ad nauseum. Ultimately you may be proved correct, but there is another eight and a bit months of a Better Together campaign that is falling apart at the seams and getting more and more desperate with every passing day. As time goes on it will be less likely they can repair the damage. The only thing I will say is, if No do ultimately win, it will not be as massive a victory as you have consistently made out.

A Tory campaign, directed from London, and fronted by Labour in Scotland was always going to end up a disjointed mess.

[~~~]

I'm not on P&B to try and convince people to vote Yes

[H_B]

and that two-thirds had difficulty in discerning whether what they were being told was true or not.

Indeed.

It's why, as I say on the other thread, it's important Scots don't believe lies told to them by the SNP and instead have access to resources and people who can explain to them why Salmond, Sturgeon and Swinney have all lied to them.

[ayrmad]

Indeed.

It's why, as I say on the other thread, it's important Scots don't believe lies told to them by the SNP and instead have access to resources and people who can explain to them why Salmond, Sturgeon and Swinney have all lied to them.

They've certainly not conned us, I could ream off a list of Westminster ministers who've ripped us off if you like, we'll not even go into the shadier stuff they're involved in down there.

[H_B]

They've certainly not conned us, I could ream off a list of Westminster ministers who've ripped us off if you like, we'll not even go into the shadier stuff they're involved in down there.

They haven't conned you - they've just lied to you? Riiiiight.

All politicians lie. I'm certainly not singling out the SNP for specific criticism here. But they are certainly culpable in terms of people not knowing what to believe.

[ayrmad]

They haven't conned you - they've just lied to you? Riiiiight.

All politicians lie. I'm certainly not singling out the SNP for specific criticism here. But they are certainly culpable in terms of people not knowing what to believe.

Are you having a giraffe, that and international law is all you've brought to the debate, between you and Reynard you've informed us of the square root of hee haw.

Answer 1 simple question with a straight yes or no.

Did we subsidise rUK to the tune of ~£2.5billion in 2011/12?

Edited January 10, 2014 by ayrmad

[Reynard]

It's a bit more than that, but nearer the time I am sure the numbers will get greater. Perhaps it isn't the be all and end all of the referendum campaigns, but If it helps people make up their minds then it's worthwhile.

Whether the P and B banter and argument is percieved as helpful and accurate or not isn't really the issue for me. What it does do is provide plenty of links to information that can help people make their minds up.

Glad to see you have finally realised your standing in the said forum.

You seem to be sure of this and repeat it ad nauseum. Ultimately you may be proved correct, but there is another eight and a bit months of a Better Together campaign that is falling apart at the seams and getting more and more desperate with every passing day. As time goes on it will be less likely they can repair the damage. The only thing I will say is, if No do ultimately win, it will not be as massive a victory as you have consistently made out.

A Tory campaign, directed from London, and fronted by Labour in Scotland was always going to end up a disjointed mess.

It's still just a football forum with a handful of regulars as you well know. Maybe people will flock here "as it gets closer", or maybe they won't.

The links are generally wings bfs and newsnut. I'm quite sure most folk can find their way directly there regardless. The only people that send links from BT are Enrico and a handful of others when they are wanting some sort of groupthink reaction to perceived wrong.

I have no interest in what anyone else thinks of me in here.

I am absolutely certain of it yes. The nationalists are losing this referendum and will lose reasonably heavily in September although as the dont knows fall either way their polling will increase from the high twenties or low thirties that its currently at. Thats an inevitability. The No lot will increase too of course.

I don't think either campaign has covered itself in much glory here, but you would never admit to the shambles of the yes one.So be it.

What is being presented to me in the white paper merely confirms that I have to vote no.

[H_B]

Are you having a giraffe, that and international law is all you've brought to the debate, between you and Reynard you've informed us of the square root of hee haw.

Answer 1 simple question with a straight yes or no.

Did we subsidise rUK to the tune of ~£2.5billion in 2011/12?

I have no idea. I have no idea what the UK's internal budgetary position is.

I doubt that is a simple question to be honest.

I am aware that Scotland spent more than it earned based on the GERS figures.