AberdeenBud Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Jock desperately trying to scramble backwards from his ridiculous assertions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Is he an expert on funeral financing aswell? I don't have to be. I said police officers shouldn't automatically get state subsidised funerals any more than nurses or teachers should. Apparently you disagree, which is your democratically endowed right. You don't need to be an expert to hold it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 And it's been explained very clearly that they don't. Police regularly assist at funerals whether it's traffic controls or one where a very large crowd is expected, your point is misinformed and to be honest ridiculous. If every large funeral automatically gets police outriders etc then I don't have any problem with it. I just don't think police should get special treatment. What's ridiculous about that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Jock desperately trying to scramble backwards from his ridiculous assertions. Bud desperately wishing for this to be true. Which of my assertions did you think I was desperately trying to scramble from? (Cue bud running away to bralt to try and troll another rangers fan) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Wow, it seems like you might not understand what speculation is. Particularly when people specifically state they are only speculating. My mistake. It seems you were either being willfully ignorant or think I'm so superior to you that my speculation should be treated as fact. Which is it? So this was speculation was it .... Whether you like it or not, pilot error is by far the most likely cause given the fact there was no mayday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Because you claimed that it was a state subsidised funeral without having the slightest idea what you were talking about, pretty much like every other post you've made, that's why it's ridiculous. Sling him in the Bar L - the green brigade will sort him out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I've repeatedly speculated based on what's in the public domain - even before the report yesterday you repeatedly told us it was almost certainly down to pilot error because there was no mayday ! I find the lack of a mayday pretty suspicious. As for you speculating on PD information, I pointed out the end over end version was dubious and only from a single source while other people say it went straight down. Not quite - you incorrectly told us a helicopter could only go end over end if the rotors were spinning. Did I? Or did I say something like 'correct me if I'm wrong but the rotors need to be spinning to send a helicopter end over end, otherwise there's nothing to cause such a dramatic change in pitch'. Thinking about it more, I guess a huge thermal could do that or if the aircraft fell from high enough to build angular momentum from air moving over differently angled control surfaces. From a few hundred feet altitude in glasgow, I still can't imagine a way for a helicopter to go end over end unless it started while the rotors were going. I have considered virtually all accounts of what happened and tried to make sense of all the information that has been made public - Gordon Smart's account is the most widely available (although I can't find any mention of 'turning strangely') and I have surmised what could have happened based on what he has said. You told us it was pilot error because there was no mayday ! I linked you a video of a news report where he describes the aircraft 'turning strangely'. The same one where he says it was 200 yards away, 500 yards in the air. I still think the accident report is most likely to rule pilot error and one of my major reasons for thinking that is the lack of a mayday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 So this was speculation was it .... Yup. The clue is in the use of the word likely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Looks like the funerals have started. Is it just me who thinks the police honour guard and motorcycle outriders were out of order at the pilot's funeral? The lack of a mayday call means it was almost certainly pilot error, so why does the public foot the bill? I do have a relevant degree, pilots experience and the literary skills to understand that when I said it was almost certainly pilot error I was being completely accurate. No doubt you have much better skill and experience than me, so based on the available evidence you'll have your own far more considered opinion on the likely cause of the crash, right? Oh dear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Because you claimed that it was a state subsidised funeral without having the slightest idea what you were talking about, pretty much like every other post you've made, that's why it's ridiculous. Well apparently there was a police officer who came into the thread and said that the police had a whip round so the cost to the taxpayer wasn't that much. So to whatever degree, he certainly thought it was state subsidised. Wasn't that you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Oh dear. You were meant to be showing something I was backtracking from like you claimed. Did you get confused? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philpy Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Seriously jock, give it a rest. It's getting a bit tiresome now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) I find the lack of a mayday pretty suspicious. It's not though, it really isn't - It's way down the priority list when something like this happens, This is from the site linked to earlier: THE FORCED LANDING: ENTRY: 1. Lower collective. 2. Right Pedal. 3. Aft cyclic. DESCENT: 1. Check: - Rotor RPM - Airspeed - Balance 2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind. 3. Set up type of auto to make landing area. 4. Mayday call. 5. Transponder 7700. 6. Passenger brief. 7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart -if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock Master switch Alternator. Oh look - it's way down below trying to fly the thing ! Did I? Or did I say something like 'correct me if I'm wrong but the rotors need to be spinning to send a helicopter end over end, otherwise there's nothing to cause such a dramatic change in pitch'. Thinking about it more, I guess a huge thermal could do that or if the aircraft fell from high enough to build angular momentum from air moving over differently angled control surfaces. From a few hundred feet altitude in glasgow, I still can't imagine a way for a helicopter to go end over end unless it started while the rotors were going. Consider yourself corrected. I still think the accident report is most likely to rule pilot error and one of my major reasons for thinking that is the lack of a mayday. I think human factors are quite high up the list now but only because transmission issues were not found during the initial inspection (although something might yet be found during more in depth inspections of course !) as always I'll speculate on what we are being told. You on the other hand simply stated from the beginning that pilot error was most likely because of the lack of a mayday call ... Let's take another look: ENTRY: 1. Lower collective. 2. Right Pedal. 3. Aft cyclic. DESCENT: 1. Check: - Rotor RPM - Airspeed - Balance 2. Select a suitable landing area considering the wind. 3. Set up type of auto to make landing area. 4. Mayday call. 5. Transponder 7700. 6. Passenger brief. 7. If time permits -consider the possibility of restart -if restart not possible turn off : Fuel Cock Master switch Alternator. Edited December 10, 2013 by Ned Nederlander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Turn of fuel cock. Civility costs nothing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most. I know I'm going to regret this, but what are they? The reasons why you're better placed to speculate, that is.. Edited December 11, 2013 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 You were meant to be showing something I was backtracking from like you claimed. Give it a rest will you? You were wrong to say what you did, accept it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Not forgetting the absolute brass neck to try and force some shitty point about his football team in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Not forgetting the absolute brass neck to try and force some shitty point about his football team in. It was pretty pathetic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most, and it seems you thinking this isn't even based on anything to do with the crash but rather my political opinion on whether police officers should automatically get a state subsidised funeral? spec·u·late (spky-lt) v. spec·u·lat·ed, spec·u·lat·ing, spec·u·lates v.intr. 1. To engage in a course of reasoning often based on inconclusive evidence. Finally Jock gets something bang on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So you've decided your speculation on the cause of the crash is fine but mine is clearly wrong. This despite me giving pretty decent reasons why I'm better placed to speculate than most, and it seems you thinking this isn't even based on anything to do with the crash but rather my political opinion on whether police officers should automatically get a state subsidised funeral? You're not any better placed than me. I've got Google as well wido 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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