HardyBamboo Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 OK I'll have to help then clearly as the nationalists have gone all shy. the figures for 2011/12 9.9% revenue = 56.9billion 9.3% of UK public spending = 64.5billion The next set of GERS figures will be considerably worse in terms of the spending gap because north sea oil revenues dropped by nearly six billion from a near record high in 2011/12 If the revenues dropped the oil will still be in the ground then, so, assuming that it comes out of the ground at some future point, an Independent Scotland would benefit from 90% of the revenues rather than just 10%? As far as I know Oil doesn't have a sell by date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You have already been found wanting. So what makes you think that there is no such thing as an EU citizen. Did Maastricht not happen in your bizarre britnat world? I did it for you as you were understandably reluctant to let us all know the awful truth. The start of March is going to be quite funny though. I wonder how the percentages will work out for you then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 If the revenues dropped the oil will still be in the ground then, so, assuming that it comes out of the ground at some future point, an Independent Scotland would benefit from 90% of the revenues rather than just 10%? As far as I know Oil doesn't have a sell by date. Well it also has to be above a certain price per barrel to make extraction economically viable. But in the meantime we can deal with actual figures can we? Not trying to guess the price of oil or extraction levels into the future. We also have about 500 years worth of coal under our feet. But it's not economically viable to extract it yet. It may become viable in the future again? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I did it for you as you were understandably reluctant to let us all know the awful truth. The start of March is going to be quite funny though. I wonder how the percentages will work out for you then? Nowhere near as funny as your claim that there is no such thing as an EU citizen. You've went all shy on that subject. Maybe you could explain why you expound such a thicky thicky shit shit notion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Nowhere near as funny as your claim that there is no such thing as an EU citizen. You've went all shy on that subject. Maybe you could explain why you expound such a thicky thicky shit shit notion? There isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The economy isnt an autonomous, independent object which acts on its own and which should be left to its own devices; it evolves and mutates. Seeing economic relations as part of human society means actively nurturing and developing the levers of policy, something which has become unfashionable over the past few decades under neoliberalism. The Scottish government are unusual in identifying 10 specific fiscal levers which they says the government will use in the event of independence: * Oil and Gas Taxation * Excise Duty * Value Added Tax (VAT) * Air Passenger Duty * Capital Borrowing * Welfare and Social Security * Corporation Tax (base and rate) * Public Sector Pay/Pensions * Capital Gains Tax * Rural and Environmental Taxation They also identifies eight non-tax policy levers: * Consumer Protection * Industry Regulation * Energy Markets and Regulation * Implementation of EU Legislation * Competition Law * International Trade * Immigration * Public Provision and Procurement Its interesting to see Scotland try something of a strategic, developmental approach. Current UK economic policy doesnt view these tax and non-tax levers as having anything to do with strategic economic goals. Theyre seen as necessary evils or about revenue collection. These tools arent used to tailor policy to the regions or toward equality, poverty reduction or even economic growth. Leave the economy alone, the free-marketeers say, and it will look after itself. Tinkering will only mess with the supposedly efficient outcomes of markets. But the events of the last half-decade have proved that the economy isnt very good at self-care and that governments need to intervene to produce desirable outcomes and to mitigate the worst impacts of markets. Presenting specific policy controls, as the Scottish government does, takes bottle, as does the naming of specific economic sectors for development. They arent the high-employment, low-value-adding industries of the past: therell be no return to ship-building or mass manufacture. The future is in the life-sciences, whisky, tourism, the creative industries, digital and information communication technology and renewable energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 There isn't Explain. Further to this can you explain why, if your correct (hahahahahaha), the Maastricht treaty specifically outlines the rights of "EU citizens"? No seriously please do. This is one of your more entertaining clangers (and there have been oh so many). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Explain. Further to this can you explain why, if your correct (hahahahahaha), the Maastricht treaty specifically outlines the rights of "EU citizens"? No seriously please do. This is one of your more entertaining clangers (and there have been oh so many). Its simply additional to my actual citizenship of the UK, essentially its meaningless. A bit like my Commonwealth citizenship. But hey, you think that 56.9 billion is more than 64.5billion so aren't we a right pair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Its simply additional to my actual citizenship of the UK, essentially its meaningless. A bit like my Commonwealth citizenship. But hey, you think that 56.9 billion is more than 64.5billion so aren't we a right pair? Your first point is ridiculous. The Maastricht treaty signed by the UK is far from meaningless. To state such is frankly hilarious. Your second point is just something you made up. At no point did I claim or state any such thing. Typical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's certainly true that EU citizenship is not "citizenship" in the same sense as, say, US citizenship, French citizenship or Peruvian citizenship is. But it's definitely a thing. It's a derivative class of rights that accrue to individuals holding certain primary citizenships. To suggest it doesn't exist is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Well according to your avid follower HB's much quoted "worlds foremost expert" on such matters 18 months is a realistic timeline to negotiate membership and with little difficulty. Or do you now disagree with James Crawford. It depends entirely on what terms the relevant parties are prepared to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It depends entirely on what terms the relevant parties are prepared to accept.This is a nonsensical statement as the whole point of the realistic timescale is to reach an agreement which James Crawford of unionist fandom agrees can be done with little difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 There isn't Do you never tire of being wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Do you never tire of being wrong? I think he must be actively pursuing it. There can be no other explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think he must be actively pursuing it. There can be no other explanation. Did you ever dispute the figures I gave when I did the percentages in cash terms? Were they wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Did you ever dispute the figures I gave when I did the percentages in cash terms? Were they wrong? No idea. Was merely passing comment on your back catalogue of clangers. Maybe someone should start a highlights thread for hilarity. Then again your fellow unionists would just start posting about EU treaties etc etc. Although you were gobsmackingly wrong on the issue of EU citizenship and im resisting the urge to pass comment on the "Hitler was a communist" episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Meanwhile..Burma still thinks 56.9billion pounds is more than 64.5billion pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 No idea. Was merely passing comment on your back catalogue of clangers. Maybe someone should start a highlights thread for hilarity. Then again your fellow unionists would just start posting about EU treaties etc etc. Although you were gobsmackingly wrong on the issue of EU citizenship and im resisting the urge to pass comment on the "Hitler was a communist" episode. Yes you were deflecting. I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Meanwhile..Burma still thinks 56.9billion pounds is more than 64.5billion pounds. Mmm I see. Thats the second time you have lied about me and this issue. Please show me where I said this. Heres a hint: I didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yes you were deflecting. I'm right. No I was laughing. Evidence of your rightness please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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